Australorps breed Thread

[groche]

Not at all Geoff. I find these old articles to be the best in learning how to breed. I have two great sources pertaining to Orpingtons. One is "The Reliable Poultry Journal" from 1911. And then there is "Hubbards Poultry Secrets". I bought both of these books from one of the best Poultry minds in the USA. Out of his collection last year. I had posted 7 or so chapters from Hubbards on another EXHIBITION poultry site. IF you like to know what site send me a PM. I'll be happy to send you the link. Again that is a site that catters to the EXHIBITION breeders. And has many many of the APA's best breeders discussing and trading ideas.
Again these are for Orpington folks. BUT they also can teach how to breed for certain looks and the Black color and green sheen. As told to me by my friend who sold these 2 books to me said, "everything you need to know in breeding poultry is in these books". And Dan is 100% correct.

Hi Bill,
glad you got something from the old articles. I'd be interested in your Orp. site, as long as I don't get involved in any of you folks' feuds! It seems like Chet is the only one managing to stay above it. Please don't disillusion me! I enjoy communicating with all you guys about our Aussie adventures. As some of the articles are very hard to read, here's a summary of what I think we could consider in our breeding programs from my Orp. articles which relate to Aussies.
"Poultry Breeder and Feeder' - William Cook
"Those which have the most white when hatched, as a rule, turn out a beautiful metallic green sheen when they become full grown, and are usually marked as the better birds."
" If the hens lack gloss on their plumage, mate them with cocks which have a few red feathers in their plumage."
"The sheen should be much the same colour as that of a good Langshan."
"The male bird should be fully developed in the parts where the hen is deficient."
"It is always better to make them up with unrelated strains."

"The Orpington in Perspective" - Fanciers Gazette, 1968.
"The committee that drew up the Standard for Australorps would always insist on adding a bit more hackle (by this I mean saddle hackle) to the Standard drawing. This craze for hackles is always detrimental to any Utility breed and the overhackled males......will assuredly lower production in Australorps."
"....all strains peter out if inbred too long and an infusion of fresh blood from other counteries would bring out the latent good qualities that are already there."
Cheers Geoff from Aus

 

[aveca]

We had a group of australians contact us quite a few years ago, not happy at all with the show industry not putting any emphasis on egg laying ability...some countrys are nuts for egg exhibition but funny they dont combine the 2...they told us that during the heyday of the egg laying championships when australorp were setting record after record for egg laying, somone with deep pockets in USA imported all of those birds one by one..so the bloodlines were here and for a time america was proud to have them, the majority of that stock went to california..I know there is some very good stock out there, some went to north east USA mass was a stronghold..sometime later they dissappeared..dispersed out into lord knows where, one of the birds I have came from the mass flock..actually 2..there are still some in calif , those breeders are quiet and busy so you dont see of hear from them much but occasionally you do see them..a man in south Pa had some, I think tiger creek birds have that look but maybe they can tell us a little more about theirs..

anyway the aussies wanted the origional birds back ..but they were so scattered that no collecting stock back..one could give a straight answer as to how they could go about that... this happened mainly because industrail revolution, to work off the farm, people found it hard to take care of both especially when drive through breakfast came available..so too easy to not bother with the birds..only the diehard breeders held a few..but people being what they will probably fighting over nothing.... more and more lost out there for many reasons..we tried to help those guys ..but the battle was too far uphill..

meanwhile we see people trying to breed big blk orps into aussies, but the feather too loose, there are a few breeders out in mid west trying that..I didnt like the result really..you have to be careful at these projects..too loose a feather too big a bird is incorrect...way back in the beginning they used langshan culls that were clean legged, and smaller tighter feathered black orp culls to create added some leghorn for egg laying ability and barred rock ..that is why you see the leghorn look in america..some orp cross birds that tip the scales way too far placing well thou, if they were weighed they would be DQed .

.here is a hen, shes not real show quality but is good to standard..little long and getting ready to molt, but she is one of the mass birds, unfortunatly she tottaly rejected the rooster, she and another that I chose to put with him failed to produce a fertile egg, in fact she almost killed herself just trying to get out of that pen, clipped her wings as she would fly up into trees ect, the rooster didnt hurt her, she bloodied herself up just trying to get out..thought it just wasnt worth her being that upset so took her out and replaced her with a settled hen, but poorer quality..poor chet and I tried to hatch those, but nothing came of them, she had poor eye poor lot of things ..that better hen would have been quite a nice match but not to your standard, good to ours.

I have not tried the blk orp x aussie cross..not yet seeing anything that might do the trick..feathers wide which the aussie breeders like, but birds way too big, and looser feather, australian top breeders do not like the gristle that orps tend to have and quickley pass to aussie offspring its considered the bane of the breed and comes from too much orp added..this hen is gristle free 100% old line aussie. sorry about my poor photography.. if I photoed her properly she presents a nicer picture..she does have a good shape all around to american standard.
like I said she is in mid molt. so staying closer to the barn

Through the magic of AI, I did get hatch 2 very interesting chicks from this hen..I will try to get a pic of them later on..they are too young to show at this point..but they seem to get better every day..I have a 4H family coming to look at them, will probably take them..so I will get some pics befor they leave..


same aussie hen


this is a blk orp cockeral that is recovering from weasle attack..so hes a little down and lost my best blk orp pullet to weasles also that found a way to climb the side of barn and enter through an air vent..trickey little monsters....you cant see it in the pic but he is too big and overwhelming to cross into aussie..at 4 months his back was taller than a drywall bucket..so that would be too much of a battle trying straighten out a mess .you might get away with that cross once but it looks like too much work to me..





at 3 &3/4rths months blk orp K...too big for aussie cross..I dont think with this size so early would produce birds far over standard weight for aussie..you can see he is looking down into that bucket..clearly will not work for aussie orp cross. at least I dont think so..

 

[groche]

I agree re the issues regarding big, fluffy Orps., Aveca, but I wouldn't fully discount the right Orp. if it came along.
Your girl looks pretty good. She seems to have more of the tight thigh feather I'm trying to get into mine, though it's not a great angle to tell from. Maybe if you lent her to Chet, some quality breeder with a good-looking roo who reads this thread might be willing to lend Chet that side of the equation. Progeny could be shared to ensure multiple lines of the same strain. I'm sharing the load here with a fellow breeder to extend the gene pool by breeding more chooks and as insurance against wipeout by foxes etc.
Cheers Geoff from Aus

We had a group of australians contact us quite a few years ago, not happy at all with the show industry not putting any emphasis on egg laying ability...some countrys are nuts for egg exhibition but funny they dont combine the 2...they told us that during the heyday of the egg laying championships when australorp were setting record after record for egg laying, somone with deep pockets in USA imported all of those birds one by one..so the bloodlines were here and for a time america was proud to have them, the majority of that stock went to california..I know there is some very good stock out there, some went to north east USA mass was a stronghold..sometime later they dissappeared..dispersed out into lord knows where, one of the birds I have came from the mass flock..actually 2..there are still some in calif , those breeders are quiet and busy so you dont see of hear from them much but occasionally you do see them..a man in south Pa had some, I think tiger creek birds have that look but maybe they can tell us a little more about theirs..

anyway the aussies wanted the origional birds back ..but they were so scattered that no collecting stock back..one could give a straight answer as to how they could go about that... this happened mainly because industrail revolution, to work off the farm, people found it hard to take care of both especially when drive through breakfast came available..so too easy to not bother with the birds..only the diehard breeders held a few..but people being what they will probably fighting over nothing.... more and more lost out there for many reasons..we tried to help those guys ..but the battle was too far uphill..meanwhile we see people trying to breed big blk orps into aussies, but the feather too loose, there are a few breeders out in mid west trying that..I didnt like the result really..you have to be careful at these projects..too loose a feather too big a bird is incorrect...way back in the beginning they used langshan culls that were clean legged, and smaller tighter feathered black orp culls to create added some leghorn for egg laying ability and barred rock ..that is why you see the leghorn look in america..

.here is a hen, shes not real show quality but is good to standard..little long and getting ready to molt, but she is one of the mass birds, unfortunatly she tottaly rejected the rooster, she and another that I chose to put with him failed to produce a fertile egg, in fact she almost killed herself just trying to get out of that pen, clipped her wings as she would fly up into trees ect, the rooster didnt hurt her, she bloodied herself up just trying to get out..thought it just wasnt worth her being that upset so took her out and replaced her with a settled hen, but poorer quality..poor chet and I tried to hatch those, but nothing came of them, she had poor eye poor lot of things ..that better hen would have been quite a nice match but not to your standard, good to ours.

I have not tried the blk orp x aussie cross..not yet seeing anything that might do the trick..feathers wide which the aussie breeders like, but birds way too big, and looser feather, australian top breeders do not like the gristle that orps tend to have and quickley pass to aussie offspring its considered the bane of the breed and comes from too much orp added..this hen is gristle free. sorry about my poor photography.. if I photoed her properly she presents a nicer picture..she does have a good shape all around to american standard.
like I said she is in mid molt. so staying closer to the barn

Through the magic of AI, I did get hatch 2 very interesting chicks from this hen..I will try to get a pic of them later on..they are too young to show at this point..but they seem to get better every day..I have a 4H family coming to look at them, will probably take them..so I will get some pics befor they leave..

 

[groche]

"AI", Aveca? I know the term, but how did you apply it etc.? Are you allowed to import sperm?

 

[groche]

I spoke with Maggie Lindemann this morning. She has moved forward, with the help of a few others and myself, to restart the Australorp club. The BYC thread for the club is https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/695121/australorp-fanciers-international

Maggie will need a lot of help. Currently volunteers are needed for officer and director positions. I volunteered as a webmaster. Membership is free until the membe5rs vote otherwise. Come on over and enjoy the fun.

The old breed club information was mailed to Maggie. Not a lot of information. She is going to forward it to me so I can scan it and upload so all can see.

Hi Jim,
I was wondering how to invite your friend, Maggie onto the thread if she'd be interested in speaking with an Aussie Aussie nut!
Cheers Geoff from Aus

 

[lildinkem]

Hi Bill,
glad you got something from the old articles. I'd be interested in your Orp. site, as long as I don't get involved in any of you folks' feuds! It seems like Chet is the only one managing to stay above it. Please don't disillusion me! I enjoy communicating with all you guys about our Aussie adventures. As some of the articles are very hard to read, here's a summary of what I think we could consider in our breeding programs from my Orp. articles which relate to Aussies.
"Poultry Breeder and Feeder' - William Cook
"Those which have the most white when hatched, as a rule, turn out a beautiful metallic green sheen when they become full grown, and are usually marked as the better birds."
" If the hens lack gloss on their plumage, mate them with cocks which have a few red feathers in their plumage."
"The sheen should be much the same colour as that of a good Langshan."
"The male bird should be fully developed in the parts where the hen is deficient."
"It is always better to make them up with unrelated strains."

"The Orpington in Perspective" - Fanciers Gazette, 1968.
"The committee that drew up the Standard for Australorps would always insist on adding a bit more hackle (by this I mean saddle hackle) to the Standard drawing. This craze for hackles is always detrimental to any Utility breed and the overhackled males......will assuredly lower production in Australorps."
"....all strains peter out if inbred too long and an infusion of fresh blood from other counteries would bring out the latent good qualities that are already there."
Cheers Geoff from Aus

Geoff I will send you a PM with a couple of links. One is the United Orpington Club. What is neat there is now, is that club is hooking up with the UK Orp Club and the Aussie Orp club. There is a very high quality breeder by the name of Martin from Australia who occasionally posts pics of his very nice Orpington birds. He is close to your caliber of quality. Another site is where alot of our APA better breeders go to help others and trade ideas. Plus another few links to look over.
It does seem like some like to feud here. Far as I am concerned, I don't sell anything, do not sell any eggs, only sell live birds to folks I meet at larger shows who ask, and am not too worried about those who have gone out of their way to give you that impression.
The APA judges here are in agreement with you on tighter feathered birds. A super nice guy, Bob Blosi has pointed out on another site, that he remembers when the best Orpingtons, those raised by Lewis Clevenger, had tighter feathering. And Bob wishes we here would get back to that look. I think, from what I see here at our APA shows, the judges are rewarding those breeders who are going that direction,. One of the best Aussie breeders here in the USA, Doug Akers has some that would meet your approval. The 2 hens I got from him which have an Exchequer look are from his breeding program. They both have a nice tight stiffer feathered tails. Doug is well known in the EXHIBITION show world as to putting some of the best tails on birds around this area. These 2 hens I have are with that male I posted a pic or two a month or so ago. They should be making some nicer Aussies. Time will tell and their offspring are about 4 months old right now. Far as my Orps go, I have gained much ground on stiffening up my birds tails in my Buffs, Whites and Blacks. As you know, nothing happens overnite. And I expect to be able to put these tails on all 4 off our APA Standard Orps here in a few years.
Cheers Geoff

 

[aveca]

"AI", Aveca? I know the term, but how did you apply it etc.? Are you allowed to import sperm?

lol! abreviation for artificial insemination in my own flock..the rooster i have belonged to rob whitney...you can see his name in APA ..east coast champion australorps and has same quality langshans...and yes , just as soon as you think you have the predetors fooled with special wires, dogs ect..they find air vents...little monsters.there are really no longer names associated with strains here thou in a couple years if people keep working at it there might be. like tiger creek, hupp, call ducks and some more...the cross breds i saw in tenn, yep drove all the way there to look..were really nice, but way too big and fluffy for aussie..cant make much judgement by pics..so went to look them over..lots of good things going on, great eye and color, no purpleing which ray connor said was in part too much green in breeding shed , use very dark females with no purpling or very little green to correct that..that man is a wealth of aussie knowlege, hope he writes another book..his knowlege is invaluable especially since he is in his 90 s now..hopefully he will take some time and do that for the benifit of all..
i am also member of the other sites as mentioed above , i only PM in there to avoid people with issues..they are wonderful people, in fact some of the birds i have that i dont show online came from them..lovley people and they dont tolerate much if any bad behavior..great info from some..have been a great help to me.i was going to quit them , but they talked me out of it..told me just ignore stuff and just keep doing what your doing and have a good time..super supportive..got suprising phone calls from people I never expected from across the country..what a suprise...

have a problem with that camera thats why shots never if ever come out well...take a pic of perfect pose, then there is a delay in the time you push button and time it actually takes the pic.

 

[aveca]

will try to get some pics when it quits raining

 

[aveca]

again....i am a poor photographer..most of the hens i have are junk hens..and the offspring never live up to the other parent...i struggled for a long time trying to settle those 2 good hens ..but it just wasnt going to happen..t ried some of the other hens, great egg layers, never a spot in the eggs , but as showing goes, pure junk like the moms..

rooster snowed upon last winter..and his back ect...are wet.and tamped down..us standard calls for longer neck...still requirement.they havnt changed stàndard here in long long time except for some additions...i have no illusions, he like all chickens has faults..i knew if i could just get some fertile eggs out of those 2 stubborn hens they would be good....but im not going to do australorps anymore except to make my precious hens that even in the darkest shortest janûary day make an egg every day with no artificial lighting..u gly they are some of them..but feb i can count on them..they are the only breed still churning the eggs out..my freind ruth wants some more..i hatched her some, she has leghorn, cherry layers RIR deleware plus more...she said those aussie hens i gave her are still going strong mid winter when the others take a break. so Im thinking somewhere in the background of these mass birds is the origional import record bloodlines,, then those things are lost to time really.no one really knows where the offspring went..but the hens performance doesnt lie..buttercup laid 342 eggs in a year..pretty darned good..thou this year she has been broody so no where near that. plus shes getting older, probably better get more babies out of her..AI her will be on next spring list..Ruthie wants a cockeral or 2 so she can make more aussies too..they dont dissapoint when you want fresh jan eggs.

 

[groche]

Aveca,
please tell me you're not seriously giving up! All that knowledge and effort already expended! Are you sure it's not just a serious case of 'Frustrated Breeder Syndrome"? It strikes worst in cold winter and/or hot summer, when nothing's really happening with our chooks and it all seems like too much effort. We develop the 'glass half-empty' mentality and look at our birds hypercritically. We must look for the faults if we're to try to breed 'em out, but we musn't lose sight of what we have achieved. Sometimes we feel a bit like Sisyphus from ancient mythology - he was the poor bugger condemned to forever push a bloody great round stone up a hill and, as he got near the top, gravity would defeat him every time! Well, our gravity is genetics and, just as we have found ways to 'defy' gravity over the years through engineering, albeit with respect for its power, we can also 'engineer' genes within its laws. It's arguable that these days our knowledge of genetics is exploding!
"Blessed are the peacemakers", Aveca. More of 'em needed in the poultry world which seems to have always suffered from a lack of them! We are still waging that Cook/Partington battle, whether as Orp.-lovers, or as aussie-lovers who can't ignore the issues as they carry over. You're concerned that adding 'Partington-type Orp. will result in birds that are too big and fluffy for Australorp Standard. Have you seen some of our prize-winning birds of recent years? Our Australorp Club lobbied to up the weight Standard here because "bigger birds have been winning major prizes for years". You can see 'em from pic over there, but not weigh 'em! Some Blue Orp "showstock" I saw recently would require your AI skills to 'mate', Aveca! They looked like monster Pekins.
As a Game breeder said, "It's a lot easier to breed squirrel tails in than to breed them out". Not suggesting that your birds have squirrel tails, but that tails are hard to get 'right'. Our Utility lines don't have that tight curved tail you see on my avatar and maybe that gene just aint there in your Utilities either. There's lots of evidence that our exhibition strains and maybe even the birds specifically bred to a form an 'Australorp' that 'warranted' acceptance as a breed, had a bit of Partington added. We need to keep reminding ourselves that these breeds were created, and in my grandmother's lifetime! What we have created can be recreated. The following post should help 'remind' you.
It's the start of breeding season here, eggs in the inc., breeding is full of possibilities, exciting! But, throughout winter, and even now at times, I find myself looking hypercritically at my chooks. I look at Derrick, and all I see is that short back that lacks a 'stocksaddle'....and why won't he stand properly...he makes it look worse than it is!... in some poses he doesn't look so bad. I have to consciously widen my perspective and 'listen' to Derrick 'saying', "Yeah, but look at my lovely head and nice tail..... and I'm not one of those oversized bullyboys ruling the showcages these days.....and look at those lovely, long, flatbacked girls you got me. I'll breed some 'saddles' for you with those babies!" Maybe he's just spruikin', but right now the glass is half full! May yours be also, Aveca.
Cheers Geoff from Aus