Avian Bird Flu - Preventatives?

[ninafe]

Thanks for starting this thread- very helpful info. I am a first time chicken owner of four baby ISA browns. They haven't left my guest bedroom since I got them. They are about 2.5 week now and I was thinking about moving them to an outside coop in a few weeks. Alternatively, we have a well ventilated garage that they can hide out in. Would you suggest keeping them in our garage rather than having them in our backyard? We live in Houston btw.

 

[TJAnonymous]

Thanks for starting this thread- very helpful info. I am a first time chicken owner of four baby ISA browns. They haven't left my guest bedroom since I got them. They are about 2.5 week now and I was thinking about moving them to an outside coop in a few weeks. Alternatively, we have a well ventilated garage that they can hide out in. Would you suggest keeping them in our garage rather than having them in our backyard? We live in Houston btw.

I think eventually you are going to want them outside...both for your health and theirs. Being in the south, your weather is similar to mine. Chicken poo gets very stinky in the southern heat and tends to draw a lot of flies.... You don't want that in your garage, trust me!

I think you will be fine as long as you have a covered run that wild birds can't enter or poop from above and you practice good biosecurity. There's quite a few posts on both of those topics...and I'm sure others will chime in here.

BTW, welcome to BYC!

 

[dct10]

There are no preventatives, only putting your birds on lockdown, & stop feeding wild birds.

Ivermectin is a Lice/Mite killer, & dewormer. It doesn't treat viruses, or bacterias.


We have tons of wild birds in our area too.

"It doesn't treat viruses " Maybe not officially but I'm not so sure anymore. India has been treating COVID pts with Ivermectin and their death rate has plummeted to near zero. For those who have been paying attention, virtually everything "the experts" have told us throughout the pandemic has been wrong. But I digress.

 

[TJAnonymous]

"It doesn't treat viruses " Maybe not officially but I'm not so sure anymore. India has been treating COVID pts with Ivermectin and their death rate has plummeted to near zero. For those who have been paying attention, virtually everything "the experts" have told us throughout the pandemic has been wrong. But I digress.

I would not say "not officially." There is plenty of research before and after Covid showing efficacy of Ivermectin against a variety of viruses including but not limited to Avian Influenza.

The following can be stated:

1. Ivermectin is not approved by the FDA and CDC for OFF LABEL use of Ivermectin to treat viruses. However this statement can hardly be taken seriously because literally THOUSANDS of drugs are used OFF LABEL every single day for numerous treatments including but not limited to Ivermectin and viral treatments. It is disingenuous to point out that Ivermectin is not "officially" a treatment against viruses. For example there are NUMEROUS drugs used off-label for mental health treatment or sleep disorders. They have never been "officially" approved by treatment of those disorders but yet they are used as commonly now as Ibuprofen by millions of people.

2. Ivermectin HAS shown efficacy against Avian Influenza in humans. It has never been tested in poultry. Furthermore because of poultry's place in the food supply, review of Ivermectin as a usable treatment must reach a higher level of scrutiny. Unfortunately this means it is not a hail Mary treatment for THIS outbreak. That doesn't mean they can't leverage this outbreak to take the opportunity to determine whether it is a viable option. Let's just hope hidden agendas and politics don't get in the way....

 

[Eggcessive]

The FDA does not approve of ivermectin use for Covid. This has become a political issue.

 

[gailbelanger]

I was just reading an article this morning that said avian flu has now spread to 12 states! Dept of Ag is looking at culling 2.75 million birds, both backyard flocks and commercial flocks. Naturally I am concerned....

Other than biosecurity, is anyone doing anything else to protect their flocks? I don't go visiting other places where people have chickens and no one else comes to my farm, but I do have TONS of wild birds around all the time so there's always an avenue of spread that I can't control.

What about preventatives? Would Ivermectin help? Anything else?

Same concern here.
It's been found an 1.5-2 hours away from me in Dallas, TX. They were saying they found the flu in sparrows.
I had a huge flock of black birds this morning hanging out near my coop. My neighbors must think I'm nuts I went running chasing them yelling until they flown off.
I was talking to a farmer guy I know about this. He knows other farmers with birds. So they free range but they are all confining their flocks until this passes over.
I have mine contained all the time. They have their coop and a fenced yard with a fence overhead. I was thinking of putting tarps up so no droppings can get in from the wild birds.
Also they put Corid in the drinking water. I think is treats influenza in chickens, not absolutely sure though.
This gives a little information : https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/Shou...event-the-spread-of-diseases-such-as-bird-flu

One sight said to wear disposable coveralls and throw away boot coverings. Let no other people enter your coop. Don't go to someone else's coops or handle other people's chickens.
They said a lot of water birds such as ducks carry the flu. We just stocked our pond with fish and guess what I had in my pond? 8 ducks!
Oye vey! Like we need something else to worry about.
Anyway hope this helps.

 

[TJAnonymous]

The FDA does not approve of ivermectin use for Covid. This has become a political issue.

No argument here. These are the facts. I'm just saying that lack of FDA approval is NOT synonymous with efficacy.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Same concern here.
It's been found an 1.5-2 hours away from me in Dallas, TX. They were saying they found the flu in sparrows.
I had a huge flock of black birds this morning hanging out near my coop. My neighbors must think I'm nuts I went running chasing them yelling until they flown off.
I was talking to a farmer guy I know about this. He knows other farmers with birds. So they free range but they are all confining their flocks until this passes over.
I have mine contained all the time. They have their coop and a fenced yard with a fence overhead. I was thinking of putting tarps up so no droppings can get in from the wild birds.
Also they put Corid in the drinking water. I think is treats influenza in chickens, not absolutely sure though.
This gives a little information : https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/Shou...event-the-spread-of-diseases-such-as-bird-flu

One sight said to wear disposable coveralls and throw away boot coverings. Let no other people enter your coop. Don't go to someone else's coops or handle other people's chickens.
They said a lot of water birds such as ducks carry the flu. We just stocked our pond with fish and guess what I had in my pond? 8 ducks!
Oye vey! Like we need something else to worry about.
Anyway hope this helps.

We have a stocked pond that a great blue heron loves to visit. I love herons and wildlife but he’s made me nervous all along and now we really don’t need him hanging out. Then I saw four wild ducks land in the pond right after I heard that we had a wild duck test positive in my county! My birds are locked up to keep them away from the pond but I don’t know how much longer I can confine the Guinea fowl.

 

[Dovemaiden]

You have a point. I often have the notion myself of just throwing a med at a problem just to see what would happen with my one chicken, my very own clinical trial if you will. I did this a couple years ago when I thought some pullets had Marek's and I wanted to see if the anti-viral herpes med acyclovir would work against it.

As for whether millions of birds are "worth it", probably not in our cynical economic system where it's cheaper and easier to simply kill all infected and suspected infected birds and start all over. The industry sets the demand and the pharmaceutical industry then decides if it's cost/profit effective enough to start doing drug trials. Bird flu has been around since 1997 when it was discovered in both birds and humans. Seems we'd have a med for it by now if any of the powers-that-be cared to find it.

There are a couple articles out there on Pub Med that show, yes, acyclovir can be used successfully against Marek's. But no one ever discusses this.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Yes, you are absolutely right... When I started this thread, I was wondering whether Pour-on Ivermectin or something else could be used as a preventative or a therapeutic treatment. After talking with people on this thread and at the University, my goal has shifted to finding out if anyone is looking at this as a potential treatment for against future outbreaks.

Here's the rub with the current situation. According to my contact, if any birds test positive, the government will automatically cull every last bird on your farm. There will be no attempt at any kind of treatment...

Keeping any illness secret is probably inconvenient and unethical. First of all, a flock owner probably wouldn't know for sure if their birds have it without testing.... And, even if you did know, if the experiment fails you'll still lose your birds to a terrible death AND potentially propagate the virus through wild birds that could pick it up.

So sadly, the only reasonable preventative is like locking down the flock... But hopefully someone will be willing to look at this option in a controlled lab and determine whether it could really work as a treatment. That research will take years because FDA and USDA need to ensure no treatment residue remains in animals meant for consumption. Lots of implications here...

The injectable Ivermectin can be given orally to treat viruses; there is a great article on West Nile Virus treatment by an avian vet using Ivermectin for this on FB. I don't habe the link at the moment, but can find it. I used it as the vet said on a couple of raptors with West Nile quite successfully.
There was an article as well on BYC discussing the worming dose for Ivermectin using either the powder or the injectible, which as a liquid, may be added to the drinking water as the only water source for a couple of days. You would need to see if you could locate it. If I come across it again I will flag it and send to you.
There was another article on here giving the dosage " for a Bantam" chicken as a quarter of a cc (the injectable but orally) . The only problem here is that a weight was not given, and Ivermectin goes by weight.
The FDA and USDA have no incentive to advocate for Ivermectin because it is a generic drug which is extremely cheap to make, and sell, so the pharmaceutical companies cannot claim royalties off it. The USDA and FDA are, unfortunately, under the thumb of the pharmaceutical companies and the medications they wish to have the public buy. I wish the FDA were truly a watchdog for the American Public, but sadly, they are not. If you go back over the last few years, you will see that people working for the FDA end up leaving and getting a very cushy job under pharmaceutical companies almost immediately until the end of their career. That speaks volumes.
There are many good articles in Pub med, Cell, NIH, Virology, Nature, etc on ivermectin's versatility and efficacy. However, ivermectin has recently been demonized by the media, who refuse to look at the studies, which are valid and in vivo, not just in vitro. The unfortunate reality is that the pharmaceutical companies do not want you using a cheap, generic drug because there is no money in it for them, and they are businesses, not charities. Pharmaceutical companies donate huge sums of money to the media for advertising their current products that are patented and bring in royalties ( and ivermectin is not in that group). The media isn't about to bite the hand that feeds them, so they go along with about anything Pfizer or the other big companies wish.