B.Y.C. Dorking Club!

[ChickenWhisper0]

Thanks for the great info Sazbaby and Sydney Acres! In our flock we have two Silkie Roosters we use for breedinot for protection thats why i was asking. Our dogs are not the problem actually our dogs love to lay out there by the chickens and watch them like a rooster!! but we have people that dont to a great job of keeping there dogs under control... which might take all the chickens. What would you recommend for the best breed of rooster?

 

[sandiklaws]

Both would do well, if you got individual roosters with the right temperament. But neither would be my first choice if you don't have an interest in those breeds otherwise. Both Dorkings and Jersey Giants will likely have less speed at a run than a RIR or similar bird, because the Dorkings have such short legs, and the Jersey Giants are so large and bulky. Also, both of these breeds have roosters that get very large, so if you don't have large hens the roosters could injure the hens during breeding.

Realistically, the rooster protects the hens from raptors and dogs not by winning the fight, but by being alert enough to warn the hens of any threat early, and by being willing to sacrifice himself long enough for the hens to escape to safety. Size isn't nearly as important as attitude, because even a big rooster is unlikely to win a full-on battle against a dog or an eagle, and a small rooster that appears threatening can do just as well as the big boys at intimidation. And the small bird may not pack as hard a punch, but it can still do some damage and will likely be more agile.

Depending on your setup, you might also do well with two or more roosters working as a team, assuming you have enough hens, and enough room for adult males to coexist peacefully. I have 2 older Croad Langshan roosters that work beautifully together -- one always watches the sky while the other looks over the hens (I live north of Seattle, so there's lots of bald eagles, hawks, etc). When a raptor is spotted, one rooster escorts the hens to safety while the other one moves out to an open area so the predator focuses on the obvious prey. As soon as the hens are under cover, both roosters join them, one facing the obvious threat and one facing the opposite direction. They've learned from experience -- the bald eagles around here hunt as bonded pairs, so there's often a second hunter that sneaks in from the opposite direction. It's amazing to watch them work, and there have only been minor injuries from the raptors so far. I recently added a young Red Dorking rooster and 14 young hens to the flock, and the young rooster is learning his duties.

As far as protection from stray dogs, you're likely going to lose your rooster if the dog has any hunting skills at all. That might use up enough time to allow the hens to get to safety, assuming there is a safe place to go. But dogs are different than coyotes -- coyotes will kill and take away one bird to eat, whereas many dogs will kill an entire flock of birds for sport and leave them in place. A rooster can help, but the best defense against stray dogs is a good fence, preferably one that is dig-proof and climb-proof. A livestock protection dog (that is trained to protect poultry) will also help, but it can't adequately protect against dogs running in a pack.

Game mix would work best, have a friend with them and they kill rats... but be warned, they might put you in the foe-not-friend category too. Best protection I have found is solid fence with electric line on top and buried bottom, and back it up with a gun or guardian dog

 

[Sydney Acres]

Hawks I can understand, but chicken-killing dogs are one of my pet peeves. Where I live there's no leash law and many people just let their dogs run loose to poop and pee on everyone's land, and harass livestock at will. Animal control won't do anything about it- our only option here is to shoot the dog if it's chasing/killing any livestock. Know of one person who actually did it after a dog killed several chickens and then went after their goats. More people have come home to find dead chickens and not been able to do anything about it, and that's just unfair. I think dogs are great and all, but if you're going to have a pet, you should take responsibility for it and make sure you know what it's up to and keep it at home! We have a large number of young chickens that free range until they are old enough to introduce to our layer flock, they are 100% on our property and cause no issues for anyone, and I constantly worry about a dog coming and wreaking havoc. I dont' think a rooster would do much except make a lot of noise and alert the flock to the threat, of all my friends locally who have lost birds to dogs, none have lost a rooster, always hens. Sorry you (or anyone for that matter) has to deal with other people's misbehaving dogs!! (Rant over.... sorry!)

Of course my reply is assuming you're talking about someone else's idiot dogs... assuming they're not *your* idiot dogs?? lol If that's the case, then that's a different situation altogether!!!!!

I would check with your local animal control/law enforcement/sheriff/etc. regarding the true specifics of the law. Most counties that don't have a leash law still have a legal provision for problem animals. I live in a leash law county, but the county where I work does not have one. However, any dog that causes a problem is required to be kept under control, and there is one sheriff's deputy that deals with all the animal complaints. Any dog that bites a person or another animal is legally declared a dangerous animal, and is then required to be kept in an escape-proof run whenever outside, or on a leash. Any time the dog is off the owner's property on a leash, it is required to wear a basket muzzle. The owner must also get a special rider in his home owner's insurance, which many insurance companies won't allow and require the owner to get rid of the dog, or have the policy cancelled. When allowed, the special rider is VERY expensive, so many people get rid of the aggressive dog, and keep the next one they get out of trouble. If a declared "dangerous dog" has a second offense, it is euthanized.

There are also lessor punishments available when dogs have caused "non-aggressive" problems, such as digging up a garden or chasing, but not biting or injuring, people or other animals. The deputy does have some common-sense discretion, but for the most part everything gets taken care of when a complaint is filed. Unfortunately, most people don't file a complaint, so problem dogs are common.

If your leash-law-free county doesn't have anything on the books to protect you, you need to visit your county government. Repeatedly and annoyingly, until something is done. Bring your friends. Bring statistics from all the other counties in your state. And in the nation. Bring suggestions so your county commission doesn't have to start from scratch. Get the support of your local veterinarians, and the MDs and nurses in your local emergency rooms that see all the dog bites. Get information on contagious diseases, especially if you live in a state that has a problem with rabies. Contact your county health department. People should not be left without any legal recourse. This is a real problem that needs to be solved, because not everyone wants to keep a loaded rifle next to their front door to protect their flock (and believe me, neighbors get frosty when your shoot their dog).

Homeowner's/renter's insurance can be a powerful tool to convince people to be responsible with their dogs. Filing a complaint against someone's insurance will raise their rates, and multiple complaints will likely get them cancelled. Most people get the message. For those that don't have insurance, there's always small claims court. If you document all your expenses for your birds, then losing your birds to someone's dog could provide some reimbursement.

The real problem is knowing (and proving) whose dog did the damage. And getting reimbursed won't bring back birds that you love as pets, or birds that you've bred for years to improve your stock. So despite the potential solutions, leash law or no leash law, I still say the best defense against dogs is a good fence around your birds. It's been my biggest investment.

 

[Sazbaby]

I would check with your local animal control/law enforcement/sheriff/etc. regarding the true specifics of the law. Most counties that don't have a leash law still have a legal provision for problem animals. I live in a leash law county, but the county where I work does not have one. However, any dog that causes a problem is required to be kept under control, and there is one sheriff's deputy that deals with all the animal complaints. Any dog that bites a person or another animal is legally declared a dangerous animal, and is then required to be kept in an escape-proof run whenever outside, or on a leash. Any time the dog is off the owner's property on a leash, it is required to wear a basket muzzle. The owner must also get a special rider in his home owner's insurance, which many insurance companies won't allow and require the owner to get rid of the dog, or have the policy cancelled. When allowed, the special rider is VERY expensive, so many people get rid of the aggressive dog, and keep the next one they get out of trouble. If a declared "dangerous dog" has a second offense, it is euthanized.

There are also lessor punishments available when dogs have caused "non-aggressive" problems, such as digging up a garden or chasing, but not biting or injuring, people or other animals. The deputy does have some common-sense discretion, but for the most part everything gets taken care of when a complaint is filed. Unfortunately, most people don't file a complaint, so problem dogs are common.

If your leash-law-free county doesn't have anything on the books to protect you, you need to visit your county government. Repeatedly and annoyingly, until something is done. Bring your friends. Bring statistics from all the other counties in your state. And in the nation. Bring suggestions so your county commission doesn't have to start from scratch. Get the support of your local veterinarians, and the MDs and nurses in your local emergency rooms that see all the dog bites. Get information on contagious diseases, especially if you live in a state that has a problem with rabies. Contact your county health department. People should not be left without any legal recourse. This is a real problem that needs to be solved, because not everyone wants to keep a loaded rifle next to their front door to protect their flock (and believe me, neighbors get frosty when your shoot their dog).

Homeowner's/renter's insurance can be a powerful tool to convince people to be responsible with their dogs. Filing a complaint against someone's insurance will raise their rates, and multiple complaints will likely get them cancelled. Most people get the message. For those that don't have insurance, there's always small claims court. If you document all your expenses for your birds, then losing your birds to someone's dog could provide some reimbursement.

The real problem is knowing (and proving) whose dog did the damage. And getting reimbursed won't bring back birds that you love as pets, or birds that you've bred for years to improve your stock. So despite the potential solutions, leash law or no leash law, I still say the best defense against dogs is a good fence around your birds. It's been my biggest investment.

Very good points here. I would love to get motivated to make a difference in our county's policies on dogs, but I'm not sure where to find the time or determination to do it these days. I've called twice about dogs chasing my livestock (cows, horses, sheep, chickens, pigs) and both times was told by the animal control officer "sorry, we can't do anything about it, but you can shoot it if it's harassing your livestock." Yeah, thanks for that. I did actually get bit by someone's dog a year or two ago, and they DID indeed get involved in that one, and the records were pulled, dog was put on house- arrest basically for a few weeks and then that was about it. He ended up biting another person, and the owner drove the bitten guy to our house so that I could confirm for him that the dog was up to date on rabies, my husband advised the guy to call animal control. Don't know what came of it, but I still see the owner driving around with that stupid dog in his truck every day. You'd think he would have figured it out by the second go-round!

Biggest problem is that most of the time the killing isn't seen, like you said, proving what animal did it. My local friends mostly just have missing birds or piles of feathers (could have been anything), but a couple of times they have witnessed the dog doing the deed. Have one neighbor friend who did actually have to shoot a dog and yes, that is unpleasant for the owner as well as the poor soul who has to resort to that to save their animals.

In the end, I totally agree, protecting your birds with the most secure fencing is ideal, and the electric netting has changed the way we can manage our birds by allowing them to still free-range in a protected area. Except for those smart ones (or would it be dumb ones? lol) who figure a way to hop over/go through out into the open...wish they wouldn't do that! lol

I just wish some people would use common sense about their dogs... if you get a dog, it's for a reason- you either want a pet or a guard, either way, you ought to keep it at home, in your house, in a kennel, on a tie-out, in a fenced-in yard, what have you. You shouldn't subject your neighbors far and wide to the will of your dog. Just tonight as I went out to close my coops, I saw one of my neighbor's dogs (about 1/2 mile up the road from us), sprinting down the road... luckily that particular one has never caused us any trouble even though it gets into our fields at least a few times a month. Just a pet peeve of mine... I'll stop ranting now and get back to dorkings! lol

 

[Sydney Acres]

Thanks for the great info Sazbaby and Sydney Acres! In our flock we have two Silkie Roosters we use for breedinot for protection thats why i was asking. Our dogs are not the problem actually our dogs love to lay out there by the chickens and watch them like a rooster!! but we have people that dont to a great job of keeping there dogs under control... which might take all the chickens. What would you recommend for the best breed of rooster?

That's really hard to predict, and depends highly on your specific situation.

Would you be keeping the protection rooster with your silkie hens? If so, then the rooster needs to be appropriately small, and the offspring will be mixed breed chicks.

Will you be keeping the protection rooster with your Silkie roosters? If so, he will likely become the dominant male, and may bully or injure your Silkies. Also, roosters that are bullied may become shy and have fertility problems. How would that affect your efforts to breed Silkies?

Do you have small children, or other people in your household that don't want to be attacked by a rooster? The most protective roosters are also most likely to be aggressive to people. Conversely, the sweetest roosters to people aren't always the best protection for the hens. The ideal rooster has judgement, but that's something that isn't always paired up with aggression.

If you get an aggressive game breed, he may kill your Silkie roosters. A game breed mix might make a good flockmate and a good protector, but you won't know until you try it. And the consequences could be severe.

I don't know which breed will be best for you. No one does. If I were in your situation and had decided that getting a protection rooster was the right thing to do, then I would start looking at breed standards for the various varieties. I would choose a breed where the typical rooster was no more than one pound heavier than your Silkie roosters if you plan on keeping them all together. Hopefully that will keep them from crushing the Silkie hens during breeding. Once I had that list, I would eliminate anything that has a reputation for being highly aggressive or overly gentle. Then I would eliminate any breed that is likely to have any limitations to speed or agility (i.e., short legs or excessive bulk at maturity). Once you've got your list narrowed down a bit, see which breeds are realistically available to you from the source you plan to use (you're not likely to find an Ixworth, even if it's your first choice). Once you have a reasonable sized list, then look into the characteristics of each breed. Which one(s) do you like? Remember, even though you're getting this bird for a specific purpose, you still have to live with it. Get a bird that interests you, whether it's based on personality or physical characteristics or color or whatever. But remember, breed descriptions are just averages. Individuals can be quite different than averages. I know a few stupid Poodles, several calm Labradors, and a whole lot of really sweet Pit Bulls, despite reputations to the contrary. Chickens are just as individual. Are you prepared to keep the rooster, or get rid of him, if he can't do his job properly?

Wish I could help you further, but there's just no right answer. Start with a breed that has a reasonable chance of doing the job within your specific limitations, that you can easily obtain, and that you really like. If you don't want to start with chicks, you might put up a notice at your local feed store. There's always people who are looking for homes for extra roosters. Sometimes seeing what's available, then determining if it might fit your needs, is a shorter search.

 

[ki4got]

Thanks for the great info Sazbaby and Sydney Acres! In our flock we have two Silkie Roosters we use for breedinot for protection thats why i was asking. Our dogs are not the problem actually our dogs love to lay out there by the chickens and watch them like a rooster!! but we have people that dont to a great job of keeping there dogs under control... which might take all the chickens. What would you recommend for the best breed of rooster?

my recommendation for the neighbor's dog would be a 12 ga shotgun... most states have livestock laws that allow you to shoot any animal harassing or killing your livestock without repercussions. you might check into your own local laws and ordinances regarding that...

I have and will continue to protect my animals in this way. and those neighbors who let their dogs roam loose are no longer a problem.

the last time it was 2 great danes vs a miniature mare and her 6 week old foal. they tried to sue me for the loss of their danes, I submitted a vet bill for emergency surgery to patch up the baby and mare, plus the loss of vision in one of the colt's eyes. guess who won that one...

 

[Alaskan]

Stromberg says that they sell show quality birds, including Silver Grey Dorking.

Have any of you'll ordered from them?

I was wondering what quality they had, either with their regular line of chickens of their show quality line.

I loved the fact, that even though their show quality chicks are pretty expansive (for a hatchery), they had no pictures

 

[OSUman]

They drop ship from Duane Urch.

Stromberg says that they sell show quality birds, including Silver Grey Dorking.

Have any of you'll ordered from them?

I was wondering what quality they had, either with their regular line of chickens of their show quality line.

I loved the fact, that even though their show quality chicks are pretty expansive (for a hatchery), they had no pictures

 

[Alaskan]

That is what I keep reading...but then the same post says he has no web site...you just have to call...that also means no pictures before I buy.

How do I get to see a list of what he has, his prices, and if he ships to Alaska?

 

[neopolitancrazy]

To state the painfully obvious: 1. google him. 2. Click on links found.
I believe the Heritage Exhibition Turkey thread has his 2013 list posted. His hatchery sells chickens, turkeys, ducks,geese, and possibly a few things I have forgotten.