B.Y.C. Dorking Club!

[neopolitancrazy]

I wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Angela

 

[ChcknGrl]

I want to join!!! I have the sweetest Dorking EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dalalune]

Karen (or anyone else that wants to chime in): You have a much better grasp of the genetics behind chicken colors and patterns than I do. I have read up on many of the different genetic traits for color and pattern, but with the differences in the naming of the colors between different breeds, that has made it difficult for me to determine what the genetic make-up actually is for a Red vs. Colored Dorking. Do you know what the actual genetic “code” or formula is for the Red and Color Dorking? (Ex: at_ bb C_ D_ E_ would be the genetic formula for a Chocolate Otter rabbit) Knowing this would be so helpful in seeing what traits are present (or not) and what needs to be changed to get the desired result.

 

[ki4got]

Karen (or anyone else that wants to chime in): You have a much better grasp of the genetics behind chicken colors and patterns than I do. I have read up on many of the different genetic traits for color and pattern, but with the differences in the naming of the colors between different breeds, that has made it difficult for me to determine what the genetic make-up actually is for a Red vs. Colored Dorking. Do you know what the actual genetic “code” or formula is for the Red and Color Dorking? (Ex: at_ bb C_ D_ E_ would be the genetic formula for a Chocolate Otter rabbit) Knowing this would be so helpful in seeing what traits are present (or not) and what needs to be changed to get the desired result.

red is easy. it's the 'normal' or wild type, black breasted red. aka a chicken with no color or pattern mutations.

add the sex-linked silver gene, you have silver grey (when homozygous in the rooster).

beyond that, i THINK colored is on a red bird, adding the dominant dilute gene, charcoal and melanizing genes. beyond that i have no idea, as it's a work in progress to map what i've got to work with.

 

[Bentley]

[SIZE=11pt]Karen (or anyone else that wants to chime in):  You have a much better grasp of the genetics behind chicken colors and patterns than I do.  I have read up on many of the different genetic traits for color and pattern, but with the differences in the naming of the colors between different breeds, that has made it difficult for me to determine what the genetic make-up actually is for a Red vs. Colored Dorking.  Do you know what the actual genetic “code” or formula is for the Red and Color Dorking?  (Ex: at_ bb C_ D_ E_ would be the genetic formula for a Chocolate Otter rabbit)  Knowing this would be so helpful in seeing what traits are present (or not) and what needs to be changed to get the desired result.[/SIZE]

From the best source book for genotype makeup of poultry breeds around

The only thing with this reference is that when people cross breed sometimes the genetic code for color patterns might not be exactly how the breed was designed to be.

 

[ki4got]

Quote: i entirely disagree with that book... dorkings are not based on a birchen coloration...
THIS is a birchen (Er)... aka crow-winged. they do not have the salmon breast or the white wing patch, among other things... the red version is called brown-red.
(images used of old english simply for conformity of type, to show color differences only)

dorkings are e+/e+ aka silver duckwing. the red version would be a black-breasted red.

if you google kippenjungle chicken calculator, for red, simply take the genome shown by default. for silver grey, add the silver gene. for colored, add dominant dilute, melanizing and charcoal, take away silver. i'm not going to try to remember all the individual mutations also listed, if you want to see the complete makeup.

 

[Bentley]

Like I said, some breeds are a little different now as a result of crossbreeding. From experience I do know that the codes in this book were not correct (anymore) for another breed I am working on and that was because of known crossbreeding. However, this resource book was compiled in the 1970's by a collection of the top poultry geneticists in the country. Much of it was determined from the scientific literature and scientific documentation recorded from the early 1900's to the present. From personal communication with one of the brightest poultry geneticist in the world as far as feather colors, patterns and traits, and one that has built a huge business based in chicken feathers, this book has been the best resource book for him.

But again, through experience you learn that some genes behave differently with some breeds with different combinations. Genetic mutations still can occur today that continually modify how genes express themselves. I am working on a line of birds now and have had a strange color pattern randomly pop up. The genetics of this line is known exactly because of closed breeding creating this line. Consultation with the geneticists that created the original line indicates that this pattern could not 'normally' occur with the genetics we had, soooooo, we are now doing some more inter crosses with this line to learn what this gene is and how it will express itself in future generations. Keep learning, keep working, keep plugging away...

 

[ki4got]

Like I said, some breeds are a little different now as a result of crossbreeding. From experience I do know that the codes in this book were not correct (anymore) for another breed I am working on and that was because of known crossbreeding. However, this resource book was compiled in the 1970's by a collection of the top poultry geneticists in the country. Much of it was determined from the scientific literature and scientific documentation recorded from the early 1900's to the present. From personal communication with one of the brightest poultry geneticist in the world as far as feather colors, patterns and traits, and one that has built a huge business based in chicken feathers, this book has been the best resource book for him.

But again, through experience you learn that some genes behave differently with some breeds with different combinations. Genetic mutations still can occur today that continually modify how genes express themselves. I am working on a line of birds now and have had a strange color pattern randomly pop up. The genetics of this line is known exactly because of closed breeding creating this line. Consultation with the geneticists that created the original line indicates that this pattern could not 'normally' occur with the genetics we had, soooooo, we are now doing some more inter crosses with this line to learn what this gene is and how it will express itself in future generations. Keep learning, keep working, keep plugging away...

again i'll stand by my statement... the book is wrong. it was printed in 1949. the standard for the silver grey dorking was established in 1874, which matches what we have now, and the genetics are still e+/e+ based. i'd dare say, the birchen mutation hadn't even been imagined 2000 years ago, when the dorking was already known by the Romans.

the mutations involved in colored dorkings may vary from what they used to be, but they're still built on an e+ basis.

 

[Bentley]

Ok, for clarification, the book Genetics of the Fowl by EF Hutt was last edited and published in the 1940's but the Registry of Poultry and Genetic Stock (the book on the right and the one the pictures were taken from) was published in 1978 and referenced proven scientific literature published up to that point. Is it perfect? I never said that, is it a fantastic reference? With out a doubt!!!

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I'm sorry,I can't contribute to the genetics discussion.

But on a couple of other threads I follow, people are talking about customizing feeding regimes for specific breeds, or different phases of the chickens' life cycle. Have any of you found a custom supplement or mix that seemed to make a significant improvement in the growth/condition/hatchability of your Dorkings?