B.Y.C. Dorking Club!

[DaveK]

Not the greatest pics as far as close ups but good enough to make me think that this could be a very nice cockerel with a lot of potential. Type for a gangly teen ager looks good. Color looks like a pretty typical silver duckwing in baby feather. Grow him out and let us see him and the pullets around Halloween. Besides the development of size, type and just general impression maybe it should be said that first or baby feather may not be all that similar to the adult color that they will moult in later. There are typical "baby feather colors" for all the established colors and he looks pretty normal for his age. He should moult into better color definition and pattern as he matures a bit. These do look to be a promising trio. Is it alright to ask where they came from?

 

[Sydney Acres]

Okay I wanted to get some thoughts on my trio. I had a dozen eggs and these were the three that hatched. I know that the roosters coloring isn't the greatest as far as the standards go but I think they have the blocky look to them. They are 12 weeks right now.

Any critiquing is appreciated. These are what I have to start with but I would like to know where I should go from here and what traits I should be trying to breed into the next generation.

Wow, how lucky are you?! You hatch exactly 3 eggs and get this gorgeous trio. Where did you get the eggs?

It's a bit soon to know how they'll mature, but as 12 week olds they're beautiful. They'll probably change quite a bit in the next 3-6 months, but will hopefully retain that blocky shape and short, thick leg (especially on the one pullet). I wouldn't worry about the color on your rooster at this point. He's got a lot of molting and wardrobe changes to go through in the next year. Many of the details will change. Send more pictures when they're 20-24 weeks old.

If these are the only Dorkings that you have, then you're probably not looking at who to cull in order to breed for a specific trait this year. You only have one male, so unless you plan to get more birds before you start breeding, he will have be your first flock sire, regardless of his eventual traits. Of the two hens, you'll need to decide if you want to breed both, or just the best one. Unless one of the hens has an obvious severe fault, or unless you want to start with a very small number of chicks, you will likely want to breed both. Once you have a number of chicks to chose from, then you want to concentrate on one primary trait at a time. (If you eliminate every chick with any imperfection, then you'll end up with no one left. Every bird will have some imperfections -- it's just a matter of what you're breeding for NOW. Once you get that trait to consistently breed true, then you maintain that trait and start to work on the next.)

The order that most breeders are working is to first eliminate all chicks that have genetically dominant disqualifications, since you will never be able to get dominant traits out of your flock. Side sprigs on combs is an example I've seen mentioned frequently. (Experienced breeders -- any other disqualifications that are genetically dominant, or difficult to eliminate?) Then breed the chicks with the best body conformation -- rectangular when viewed from the side (a deep, long keel), straight legs positioned far apart when viewed from the front (knees and hocks at the proper angle to support their weight and a wide chest and pelvis), good width to the back in front of the tail (wide pelvis) and across the chest, shoulders carried slightly higher than hips (strong back muscles, less stress on back and hips, important for elongated birds), and shortish, thick legs. Someone on this site described this breed as wide, low, beautiful barges. Proper body conformation is the basis of this breed; all else is fashion details, and much quicker to change with directed breeding. (That's not to say everything else should be ignored, but just not the primary reason for selection.) Once body conformation is where you want it, most breeders then list comb and foot shape, and color comes last. I would add one more thing that I think is very important -- temperament. This breed should be relatively calm and friendly. A huge, high-strung, anxious, or aggressive bird makes everyone miserable, regardless of its beauty. The Dorking Breeders Club website has some great information, and nice pictures.

Sometimes camera angles can be deceptive, and similar looking chickens can get mixed up. As impossible as it is to get the perfect shot of a moving chicken..., those details can make a difference in how people evaluate them, especially since we can't see them in 3D. I find it easier to evaluate conformation by having one picture aimed down vertically from directly over the back, one each horizontally (at the chicken's level, not our level) from the right side, left side, front, and back. Also, a close up of the head from right, left, front, and back. And a close up of each foot, taken when someone is holding them off the ground or when they're standing on a flat (not grassy) surface, at an angle that shows all five toes best (usually aiming at the inside of the leg, lined up with the third toe, at ~30 degree angle from above, but every foot is slightly different) . If there are similar looking birds, then labeling them with names or numbers will keep us from getting them mixed up.

I know, I know. It's impossible, and it makes you feel like you're taking mug shots of criminals. But the more specific the information you give out, the more valuable the critique you'll get in return, without all those qualifiers about camera angles and body parts not included.

--April

 

[Sydney Acres]

I have seen where chicks fed medicated food do have a poor resistance if they get an over dose of coccidiosis--thus, wet, warm weather. I have not fed medicated foods for the last 2 or 3 years and had better luck (knock on wood) without it. I feel I get healthier chicks all together. If I do see signs of cocci I treat with Sulmet and have had good results with that. Pens have to be kept clean and dry and I have to be careful not to let food get on wet ground--I use a lot of sand spread around feeders. I have found that a lot of people feed medicated thinking their chick and young birds will not get cocci while being fed medicated food but it is not a sure thing by no means. Another good thing to do is keep lots of grit and greens available to your birds if they do not get to free range. On that note I need to go check on my flock....

THANK YOU!!! Finally someone who agrees with me, for the same reasons.

I was beginning to feel like I was the only one who fed unmedicated feed. I've had some strong discussions with the manager at my local feed store, and the local mill, on this subject. Until I repeatedly complained, they only offered non-medicated feed in the 5# bags, while offering medicated chick starter in 5, 25, and 50# bags. They had to special order non-medicated 50# bags for me for months (each time telling me that I'm killing my chicks) until a few other customers started buying them, so they now keep them in stock but frequently run out (that should be a hint that they should order more each time, but so far that hasn't happened). Admittedly, there are some situations where coccidiostats are needed, but they shouldn't be pushed on everyone just because they're available. Proper management goes a long way to maintaining good health, and medication should never be a substitute for good management.

 

[greenhorn]

We don't use medicated chick feed here either. One of the biggest reasons we raise our own chickens is to get away from eating medicated live stock.

We do quite well with non medicated feed.....

 

[LilyD]

Is it alright to ask where they came from?

I got them as hatching eggs from Emma Ruggiero. This is her website http://www.freewebs.com/whidbeypoultry/forsale.htm.

April~ I plan to use the trio I have for breeding this year. I was more looking at what traits would make sense to breed towards with the next generation. I know that we want to keep going towards the perfect feet and blocky body stature but I wasn't sure if there was anything else to work towards. So right now I am going to work towards body structure, and temperament for my starts then I will go from there.

Question though do you add a new rooster to each generation or do you breed back to the same rooster each year. If I am keeping girls from next years hatching is it okay to breed them back to the same rooster or should I look for another rooster from an outside source that meets the requirements I'm breeding towards to add new blood to the lines?

I agree with you that they have to be super calm and friendly. These birds were my tv buddies for a while after they hatched and now that they are bigger I go out and they will sit with me. The rooster is a little more aloof. He will come up with them but won't necessarily want any physical contact. He will take treats out of my hand and stick around just on his terms.

I will try to take some better pictures as they grow up. I took these on a whim as I was sitting with them yesterday. They do tend to move fast and since they haven't seen the camera a lot it's something that might eat them lol.

Sydney Acres~ I don't feed medicated feed either and am hoping to go totally away from pellets or crumbles and to a diet of grains veggies fruits and proteins that is totally organic.

 

[ki4got]

We don't use medicated chick feed here either. One of the biggest reasons we raise our own chickens is to get away from eating medicated live stock.

We do quite well with non medicated feed.....

one other reason IMO to NOT medicate... birds may be exposed to low levels of coccidia now and then, and it's my belief that by not medicating, the birds may develop their own resistance to it, and possibly pass that down to their chicks over successive generations.

I'm the same with Marek's disease. i will not vaccinate for it. it's present in nearly all flocks, but (luckily) seems to take fewer and fewer chicks each generation. so my hope is that if enough breeders followed suit, we could eventually breed a chicken that's resistant to it.

 

[LilyD]

one other reason IMO to NOT medicate... birds may be exposed to low levels of coccidia now and then, and it's my belief that by not medicating, the birds may develop their own resistance to it, and possibly pass that down to their chicks over successive generations.

I'm the same with Marek's disease. i will not vaccinate for it. it's present in nearly all flocks, but (luckily) seems to take fewer and fewer chicks each generation. so my hope is that if enough breeders followed suit, we could eventually breed a chicken that's resistant to it.

I totally agree. If you do not vaccinate you get over the generations chickens that have developed resistance to all the illnesses because all the ones who weren't resistance have died. Those that are left are healthier happier better chickens because they have been made stronger by allowing to grow on their own in a natural way.

I provide food water and I will separate ill birds from the flock but I won't medicate my feed at all.

 

[ki4got]

Question though do you add a new rooster to each generation or do you breed back to the same rooster each year. If I am keeping girls from next years hatching is it okay to breed them back to the same rooster or should I look for another rooster from an outside source that meets the requirements I'm breeding towards to add new blood to the lines?

personally, you're asking for trouble if you keep only one rooster. and baby roos seem to take forever to 'get it' in regards to treating the girls nicely.

I kept my old rooster and one of his sons. and i am working on determining which pairing gives me the best offspring to start my line breeding with, by pairing each rooster with each hen individually. my younger roo still hasn't got the idea yet, so i will probably wait until next spring to start pairing him with the hens.

i'll be building a small-ish breeding shed with this purpose in mind, with 4 individual cages (raised) inside and plenty of floor space for the roo and his 'girl-of-the-day'. that way i can make sure each girl is getting plenty of 1 on 1 time, and be able to collect eggs and mark them with which hen they came from. then the plan is to have a rotating hatch, with each hens' eggs hatching 3-5 days apart... then i'll be able to know exactly, who the parents are and be able to go from there.

This idea came to me when i was growing out lots of chicks this spring, and noticing similarities in some (good or bad) and wondering which hens they came from... a darker breast on one, lighter overall on another, etc.

 

[greenhorn]

one other reason IMO to NOT medicate... birds may be exposed to low levels of coccidia now and then, and it's my belief that by not medicating, the birds may develop their own resistance to it, and possibly pass that down to their chicks over successive generations.

I'm the same with Marek's disease. i will not vaccinate for it. it's present in nearly all flocks, but (luckily) seems to take fewer and fewer chicks each generation. so my hope is that if enough breeders followed suit, we could eventually breed a chicken that's resistant to it.

I agree, I don't vaccinate my birds for the same reason. Survival of the fittest on our farm. Much rather not let the weaker birds pass their genes, it's natures cull. If a bird gets sick here it will be quarantined and never used for breeding. I don't enjoy losing birds but in the long run i think it's best for the flock.

There are no new diseases out there, just the same ones chickens have been getting since their beginnings. Chicken farmers from long ago didn't use these drugs on their flocks and we still have chickens...... I think they probably bred birds that were more resistant to illness just like we are trying to do....... It also makes sense to me that Dorkings being an ancient breed, should be raised and bred closest to the way they were raised and bred long ago.

 

[greenhorn]

Don't have a picture but the steel is looking very nice on the new chicken coop. Should have the outside done tomorrow. Have a crew helping me finish this job up and can't wait to get my birds in a nice large coop. Still have to finish the inside and fence off their runs but we are getting close.

Our whites are looking very nice, it's going to be an awesome sight when they are scattered around in their big runs.