baby turkey with deformity...

[Damummis]

Cityman-

I can totally sympathize with you. Holding a cute little chick of any sort kinda tugs at the ol' heart strings. I guess it all comes down to what others have said. What would the quality of life be?

Just the other day I had to cull a beautiful blue Cochin chick that was no more that 8 hours old. It fell out of the nest and was attacked by other hens. Yeah, I probably could have saved it but it would have been a long haul and who knows how it would have gone. I never thought I could cull a little one but my heart felt more empathy than anything and with one swift snap I did dislocate it's head. I won't lie, it felt gross. Then I buried the little one in the tomato bed. I feel good about my decision. It was hard but had to be done.

Good luck and may you find peace in your decision.

 

[thaiturkey]

Folks, I think that everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. The only difference is in the amount and type of experience of individuals. A novice would not want to kill unnecessarily and may not be sure when to do it, whereas an expert would know exactly when it became necessary.

I would have called our vet in this situation but I didn't say so because posts in a thread I started on the subject said that there was a cost and availability problem in the USA. Anyway, the decision now seems to have been made.

 

[The Chicken Lady]

To cull or not to cull is always a hot topic here on BYC.

After listening to and learning from some of the most respected and most experienced members here on BYC, I've formed the opinion that good animal husbandry requires a bit of nerve. That is, you have to be strong enough to do what needs to be done -- show an animal mercy -- when it is apparent that its quality of life is not as good as it could have otherwise. By mercy, I mean, don't let something suffer needlessly.

Some people will try to compare a farm animal with a deformity or other problem to a human child with a medical issue, and personally, I don't agree with that point of view. If it is a family pet or an otherwise valuable animal and you have the time and money necessary to provide the animal with the proper medical care, then by all means try your best. However, it is not right to leave an animal alive to suffer just because we, the stewards of our animals, are not strong enough to do the right thing, which is to end the creature's suffering.

In your situation, where it sounds like the creature is hardly able to walk, I would cull. Although it is able to eat and drink, I think it would not have a very good life overall. You will not be around 24/7 to provide for its needs. It will never have the quality of life it deserves. Leg injuries in poultry are very tricky, and depending on the age of the bird, cannot always be repaired, even by a vet.

I am not sure of the best way to cull a turkey poult; I have more experience with chickens. Steve of Sandspoultry could probably advise you of the quickest and easiest route for a young bird of that size.

Good luck and strength and wisdom to you.

 

[thecityman]

seriously, steve, you misread my comment....what I said was that I was upset at first, but then decided you were comming from a place in your heart that was more concerned about the well-being of the animal than anything else, and for that reason I was specifically NOT upset with your comments. I also explained that the delay was much more about giving the chick enough time that 1.) I could be certain it would not improve, as well as 2.) waiting to hear from experts-like yourself- about whether I should cull it AND the most humane way to do that. Instead you seem to be focused on my "tender feelings" I think you called them. Imagine if I had just lopped this chicks head off the first day something didn't look right, then I'd received information such as the one about splayed-leg syndrome that could have instructed me how to heal the chick. In that case I suspect you might have condemned me for killing a helpless animal too quickly and before I took the time to learn about its condition and possible treatments available. Keep in mind that this problem only became apparent on Tuesday night- barely- and really it was wednesday before I was sure SOMETHING was wrong. That was 2 days ago. I don't think thats the same as your example of the chick that was forced to live a sad life for TWO MONTHS before dying. I also don't think your characterization of this thread as "drama" is accurate or fair. I appreciate and respect every single entry in here and they gave me not only comfort (which I know is irrelavent to you) but also EDUCATION, and reassurance. It may have taken me 2 to 2.5 days, buts thats how long it took ME to be sure that euthanizia is appropriate in this case and the best way to do it. I understand that it wouldn't have taken you that long, but I implore you to remember back to when you were new to hatching and raising chicks. I've seen enough of your posts and your web site that I have no doubt of you expertise....I VERY MUCH do trust in your knowledge and believe you to be highly informed, experienced, and well versed in this field. But I am not. I'm quite new, in fact, so it took me a little longer than it would you before I was certain that this chick has an incurable problem, that it should be culled, and how that should be done. As the prior comment said, it just takes experts less time to know what to do than it does beginniners, but 2 to 2.5 days still doesn't seem all that long to me....especially when the chick is showing no signs of pain or suffering other than having to sit/lay all the time....not a good life but also not a condition that seems to demand instant action.

As for your threat to turn me into the police if you knew where I was....... I'll leave it to others to form their own opinion about that. Just because we disagree on whether or not I should have killed this chick the first day or waited 2 more days to educate myself, I would have hoped that we would still be able to have mature discussions and even express differing opinions without resorting to threats. And if your desire to "turn me in" is based on proptecting the other chicks or protecting area wildlife or other altruistic reasons, I fail to see how your words helped any of those....seemed to come from a place of anger and a desire to "get me" but as I said, I'll let others decide what that was all about. But I hope you remember, or look back at my posts, that I aquired these eggs only after the hen and nest were destroyed and they 0% chance at survival on their own. Also, this is not a pattern of behavior that needs to be stopped- it the first and only time in my life that I have saved wild animals, and I certainly have not benefited in any way- to the contrary, I've opened myself to critisism, spent my money, and exposed myself to some liability- which clearly you would like to capitalize on. I have also acknowledged from my very first post that I know opinions may differ on whther I should have saved the eggs or let them decompose, but I asked that since the "damage" (or the "saving"-depends on view point) has already been done, I'd appreciate people helping me to do the best thing for the chicks from this point forward,whatever the opinion of what I should or shouldn't have done. I'm sorry you want to turn me in, but you can see that there are also people who think saving the eggs was the right thing. Opinions differ, I just wish you didn't feel compelled to threaten me because of it. Now, I felt I had to address your comments and make some clarifications. Now that I've done that, I sincerely would like to see if we can please just agree to disagree and focus on the positive things. As I've said, I have great respect for your knowledge of and experience with hatching and raising birds. I'm sorry for anything I've done and said before this post that upset you and I very sincerely would like to find a way that we could put our differences aside and concentrate on the well being of my chicks. I may well need your help/advice again in the future, and I would like to think that- at least in the interest of the chicks- youd be willing to give it.

to the rest of you, I deeply apologize for this exhange and I, for one, sincerely regret that such an incredibly helpful, supportive,and educational thread has been temporarily hijacked by a personal disagreement... I also accept my own role in it since it takes 2 people to have an exchange of this nature. I do promise to direct any future posts of this nature to the appropriate personal mailbox. But since the post to which I am referring and addressing was publicly posted and felt compelled to respond in kind. It won't happen again, and Iam sorry. I hope this doesn't detract from all of your desire to answer my call for help, and I certainlyam gateful to you all for your kindness, your support, and your general information...it has all been incredibly helpful. Thanks.

 

[chickenzoo]

Sorry you had to make that tough decision, it is always hard with babies......had to do it more than I'd like...... it will be the right decision though, as it's quality of life would be very poor with those deformities. I cover the head with a paper towel, hold it over a bag and using sharp scissors cut the neck, and dispose of the body. It is quick, and on young birds fairly bloodless. This is coming from someone who had a goose and a swan in wheel chairs, LOl, so I understand.

I tried the manul dislocation... but it didn't work well for either of us... : (

 

[VelvetDragon]

This is always a difficult choice, and I understand it being difficult to know just when is when for an animal you don't have experience with. It does sound like you've made the humane choice to euthanize this poult. I'm sorry about the situation.

 

[()relics]

Ok I'll be the one to say it... You see Irresponsible breeders are to blame here.If your chick was hatched in a nest under a turkey hen, it would have become the first meal for its clutchmates or been an after hatching snack for the hen. Ever heard of the "survival of the fittest?"...Before the turkey, or any animal for that matter, was domesticated, it lived and thrived in the wild. If a deformed weak chick hatched, it was eaten or eliminated...Why? It couldn't keep up with the rest of the chicks and it made alot more noise, because of the trama it was experiencing. You, Yourself, said your chick was crying continually. Now in the wild why would a loud or nonambulatory chick be a problem? Really?? Every predator in a mile would home in on it for the free meal. Sounds like trouble for the rest of the clutch, to me. So the hen would eliminate it or, and maybe worse, move away from it with the clutch, leaving it for the fox,snake,cat,hawk, you get the idea. That sounds humane...Same goes for weak chicks that need help pipping or hatch slowly or need extra time to "get their feet under them"...the hen moved away with "the majority" of the chicks to keep them safe.......ENTER MAN...So now we help a chick pip if it needs help....we try to "fix" deformed chicks..we cater to slow hatchers and slow starters...Boy are we humane...All we are doing is helping The Weaker survive. But we are being humane...NOT...You are simply helping a chick live and potentially breed, when it should have died....Now you have done yur part to help this deformity/weakness/conformity issue thrive...And I guarentee It will reward you by passing this desirable trait to its offspring and to their offspring and so on...So by being "humane" to 1 chick you are ultimately being inhumane to potentially hundreds of its offspring that will have to endure the same hardships as it.
For me... Help pipping?? No...late/slow hatchers Don't want them either...Culling?.....after hatching they get a 30 minute window to be up and about or they are "disposed of"....Cruel? not really if you cull properly you will find that less and less of the birds that you hatch "need to be culled" instead of the converse....This theory has to be followed with every type of animal, horses, goats, dogs,cows,sheep,chickens,everything....JME and O

 

[thecityman]

I'm sorry I've created such controversy. I culled the chick last night.

 

[VelvetDragon]

()relics :

Ok I'll be the one to say it... You see Irresponsible breeders are to blame here.

Well in this case, breeders have nothing to do with it. This turkey wasn't bred, it's wild.

If this was an issue that would've been prevented by culling ruthlessly, and nature culls ruthlessly, then this chick shouldn't have existed in the first place, since it's a wild turkey. Deformities pop up in the wild as well, despite nature's ruthless nature. Spontaneous mutations and environmental conditions may all contribute to such problems. Not all deformities are genetic and can be passed on to offspring, as well.

However, if breeders culled for all non-survival traits like nature does, we wouldn't have a single chicken or turkey or horse breed. We've selected specifically for non-survival traits in our birds. Egg-laying alone would ensure most chickens in captivity wouldn't have a chance in the wild. No wild bird would use up its calcium and other stores of nutrients laying daily infertile eggs that will attract predators for an easy meal. Not to mention the fact that we've bred birds so big they can't fly to get out of danger, in colors that a predator would spot from miles around. Yes, the weak should not be used in a breeding program, but traits we've bred for are certainly not based on "what would survive in the wild".

Also remember that in the breeding world, "cull" does not always mean "kill". It often just means to remove it from the breeding program. Euthanasia for humane reasons and culling are different things, really.

I agree with you that culling (not necessarily killing) is a vital part of any breeding program. What's happening here is not a part of any breeding program.

In my opinion the best place for the rest of these little guys is a trip to the wildlife rehabber, who can raise them in a way that they'll be ready for release when they're old enough.

ETA: I'm sorry cityman. It was really the best thing to do.​

 

[()relics]

Quote:
Thats odd unless the OP is actually a turkey hen and has been sitting on a nest for the last 28 or so days; and given they are not an extremely smart turkey able to read and write with internet access, I would say that the eggs, in fact, were hatched in an incubator....and unless the OP stole the said eggs from the nest of a wild turkey then they must have obtained them from??? A BREEDER....so begins my original post...BTW culling , means killing, when speaking about a livestock animal....Man the savior of all other species on earth...what a joke...animals took care of themselves long before we started to think we knew how better than they...