Backyard Brahmas!!

[Katt66]

Probably do need to worry about him squishing the bantams.  Hard to tell on the vulture hocks, looks like the wind is blowing.

Thanks! And I hope not. He's going to be really sad if I have to take his girls away. Sorry for the double posts. I'm on my phone and its a bit slower with uploading pictutes. Makes navigating a but tricky too. I'm not too worried about the vulture hocks if he does have them. We will love him no less for it. I was just eondering. His feathers are rougher all the way around and a bit scruffy feeling compared to his sister. She's just softer and sort of velvety feeling and looking. I really love these birds.

 

[big medicine]

I've read the SOP several times (not the whole thing, just the pertinent parts) and you are absolutely right, the male partridge should have red. Lustrous, rich red is the actual description that they call for. Most of the partridge that I've seen (mine included) are gold based, not red based @big medicine I know that you work a lot on the red and have had some success. What genes/breeding can provide that lustrous, rich red color and eliminate the gold? I also understand from all of the reading I do here, that you should first work on your type and then work on the colors. Would you agree with that plan?

The folks that got your male are very luck indeed!

They both are gold based, the deeper colored birds just posses extra red enhancers. Mahogany (Mh) for example, it's presence will turn a orange hackled male into the deep red sought for. There are also other red enhancers that I do not yet have my head around that can further deepen the effect.

You guys might think I am a bit persnickety about loose use of color terms, don't get me started on people trying to pass gold, or even buff, birds off as blue laced REDS. Mahogany appears to be dominant, so a one copy bird will look by all outward appearances the same as a proper two copy bird. But that one copy mahogany bird will only pass it on to half of it's chicks, thereby also producing a bunch of gold chicks as well (depending of course what the other parent adds to the mix. To often novice breeders will swear up and down that this gold chick, maybe produced from two red parents, has to be red, when quite obviously it is not.

The mahogany in my birds may have come in part from the Wyandotte I used to bring in the blue, but he was a splash, and I have a hard time determining if in fact a splash male is truly red or not. More than likely the mahogany also, or maybe solely, came from the original white Cornish that was part of the original cross that started all my projects. These recessive white Cornish were actually dark Cornish with their colors switched off you might say. They possessed both mahogany, and the black neck hackle trait, that I try to encourage in my BLR breeding project. I personally like the look on the hens.

 

[big medicine]

Realized after I posted, that is actually a picture of a double laced hen. But it still shows the Cornish black hackle trait, verses the laced neck hackles typically found on a Wyandotte..

 

[bumpercarr]

They both are gold based, the deeper colored birds just posses extra red enhancers. Mahogany (Mh) for example, it's presence will turn a orange hackled male into the deep red sought for. There are also other red enhancers that I do not yet have my head around that can further deepen the effect.

You guys might think I am a bit persnickety about loose use of color terms, don't get me started on people trying to pass gold, or even buff, birds off as blue laced REDS. Mahogany appears to be dominant, so a one copy bird will look by all outward appearances the same as a proper two copy bird. But that one copy mahogany bird will only pass it on to half of it's chicks, thereby also producing a bunch of gold chicks as well (depending of course what the other parent adds to the mix. To often novice breeders will swear up and down that this gold chick, maybe produced from two red parents, has to be red, when quite obviously it is not.

The mahogany in my birds may have come in part from the Wyandotte I used to bring in the blue, but he was a splash, and I have a hard time determining if in fact a splash male is truly red or not. More than likely the mahogany also, or maybe solely, came from the original white Cornish that was part of the original cross that started all my projects. These recessive white Cornish were actually dark Cornish with their colors switched off you might say. They possessed both mahogany, and the black neck hackle trait, that I try to encourage in my BLR breeding project. I personally like the look on the hens.

I really like the black heads as well. Beautiful bird and lovely topline!

So, do you think by breeding a gold partridge to something like one of your BLRs would pull more of the mahogany into the gold partridge? Would the tight partridge penciling be overrun by the looser lacing?

I'm still wondering about the type problem. My plan is to try to improve the type in my partridges and then work on the color. Of course, I'll try to pick the best to breed that have both, but if I have to give one up over the other, I think I'll work on type first. I've got a cushion problem that I really need to get out of my topline before I start messing with the color. My size is about a B+, head probably a C, but the backend in a D for sure. So the backend is really my main focus right now, then I will work on the head. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find some partridge with the right topline and my darks are still too young to tell anything about yet. Too much cochin in the partridge I suspect.

My biggest problem right now is just getting enough birds to work with. I'm not happy with my hatch rate, I've got tons of cockerels to choose from but only a few pullets. I had decided to retire the incubator for the year, but I decided I wasn't happy with my choices so I've got some more eggs coming tomorrow. On top of that, it is very, very difficult even to find eggs from good breeders. Quite a few have stopped breeding until fall/winter, some just don't sell their eggs. I'm hoping that I can pick up some juveniles this fall at some shows. I've also thought about picking some up when we do our RV trip back east in August, but my husband might object to carrying chickens around in his beautiful bus. Usually I end up winning those battles though.

 

[big medicine]

I really like the black heads as well. Beautiful bird and lovely topline!

So, do you think by breeding a gold partridge to something like one of your BLRs would pull more of the mahogany into the gold partridge? Would the tight partridge penciling be overrun by the looser lacing?

I'm still wondering about the type problem. My plan is to try to improve the type in my partridges and then work on the color. Of course, I'll try to pick the best to breed that have both, but if I have to give one up over the other, I think I'll work on type first. I've got a cushion problem that I really need to get out of my topline before I start messing with the color. My size is about a B+, head probably a C, but the backend in a D for sure. So the backend is really my main focus right now, then I will work on the head. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find some partridge with the right topline and my darks are still too young to tell anything about yet. Too much cochin in the partridge I suspect.

My biggest problem right now is just getting enough birds to work with. I'm not happy with my hatch rate, I've got tons of cockerels to choose from but only a few pullets. I had decided to retire the incubator for the year, but I decided I wasn't happy with my choices so I've got some more eggs coming tomorrow. On top of that, it is very, very difficult even to find eggs from good breeders. Quite a few have stopped breeding until fall/winter, some just don't sell their eggs. I'm hoping that I can pick up some juveniles this fall at some shows. I've also thought about picking some up when we do our RV trip back east in August, but my husband might object to carrying chickens around in his beautiful bus. Usually I end up winning those battles though.

Not sure how far east you are coming, but it's a shame you are not going to be in Columbus, Ohio this November. The Ohio National. It will be the Brahma National, and probably most breed club nationals as well. I was at the Southern Ohio show a couple weeks ago delivering the dark red male. There were some very nice large fowl darks there, put me in mind of Barb Pipers old birds. I believe they were Delany's, and would hazard a guess they will likely be at Columbus.

Putting a partridge male over some of the above mentioned darks would go a long way toward improving type. A person could work on that for a while, and hopefully before long there will start to be some deep mahogany partridges starting to show up that could be gotten and incorporated into your line to bring the color.

Do you know how many generations your birds are removed from pure Cochin blood ? Same question on vulture hock issues ?

 

[Katt66]

Not sure how far east you are coming, but it's a shame you are not going to be in Columbus, Ohio this November. The Ohio National. It will be the Brahma National, and probably most breed club nationals as well.  I was at the Southern Ohio show a couple weeks ago delivering the dark red male.  There were some very nice large fowl darks there, put me in mind of Barb Pipers old birds. I believe they were Delany's, and would hazard a guess they will likely be at Columbus. 

Putting a partridge male over some of the above mentioned darks would go a long way toward improving type.  A person could work on that for a while, and hopefully before long there will start to be some deep mahogany partridges starting to show up that could be gotten and incorporated into your line to bring the color.

Do you know how many generations your birds are removed from pure Cochin blood ?  Same question on vulture hock issues ?

Not sure if you mean me with the vulture hock question. My birds came from Mt. Healthy by way of TSC. Nothing special like you guys have got. Just hatchery birds.
I would love to find a nice Silver Laced Wyandotte though to breed to them. Would that eventually give ME Silver Laced Brahmas? It's my favorite color pattern. And it would be neat to make my own...

 

[big medicine]

Not sure if you mean me with the vulture hock question. My birds came from Mt. Healthy by way of TSC. Nothing special like you guys have got. Just hatchery birds.
I would love to find a nice Silver Laced Wyandotte though to breed to them. Would that eventually give ME Silver Laced Brahmas? It's my favorite color pattern. And it would be neat to make my own...

No that was directed to Bumpercarr, who described her birds as showed some Cochin traits. Was curious if the hocks were still an issue, as is usual with Cochin outcrosses.

I agree on the silver laced pattern, took me about 25 years to get mine to this point.

 

[Katt66]

No that was directed to Bumpercarr, who described her birds as showed some Cochin traits. Was curious if the hocks were still an issue, as is usual with Cochin outcrosses. I agree on the silver laced pattern, took me about 25 years to get mine to this point.

Those are some gorgeous chickens.

 

[bumpercarr]

Not sure how far east you are coming, but it's a shame you are not going to be in Columbus, Ohio this November. The Ohio National. It will be the Brahma National, and probably most breed club nationals as well. I was at the Southern Ohio show a couple weeks ago delivering the dark red male. There were some very nice large fowl darks there, put me in mind of Barb Pipers old birds. I believe they were Delany's, and would hazard a guess they will likely be at Columbus.

Putting a partridge male over some of the above mentioned darks would go a long way toward improving type. A person could work on that for a while, and hopefully before long there will start to be some deep mahogany partridges starting to show up that could be gotten and incorporated into your line to bring the color.

Do you know how many generations your birds are removed from pure Cochin blood ? Same question on vulture hock issues ?

No vulture hock issues have shown up yet. I've hatched out about 30 chicks from the original breeding pair and haven't seen one that has them..so hopefully they are not in this strain.

I don't know how many generations are removed from Cochin, there are definitely some Cochin traits showing up though, particularly in the pullets/hens. They are far enough removed to not have bunny tails, but the cushion remains. The hens also have pretty wide back ends, I think a little wider than the standard for Brahmas calls for and their feathers are softer than I think they should be - maybe more Cochin like. I'm a little concerned that the darks I hatched have vulture hocks, will need to wait until the grow a little more. Pictures of the parents didn't show them, so I hope it is just my imagination. If so, they will only be good for the freezer...hence, hatching more darks this month.

I'd love to make it to Columbus this November. We are heading to Florida at the beginning of November to get some fishing in. Right now, planning to fly there but if I can convince him that the RV would be a better idea with a side trip to Columbus, that would be perfect. We're going to be in Ohio in August, wouldn't you know there's nothing going on in August that I'm aware of.

 

[Katt66]

No that was directed to Bumpercarr, who described her birds as showed some Cochin traits. Was curious if the hocks were still an issue, as is usual with Cochin outcrosses. I agree on the silver laced pattern, took me about 25 years to get mine to this point.

Where are you at in Ohio exactly? My in - laws are in Steubenville and we generally get out around Zanesville and up to Columbus quite often when we get out there.