Bad Genetics?

[Buttercup Chillin]

Wonder what those Cornish X's will do this summer Free Ranging in 100 degree weather. Most people could have told the guy a leghorn will outproduce a NHR easily, that is what they were breed for, the NHR was breed for Dual Purpose and as such lays well.

I think a lot depends on Where you live and what conditions you have. The breeds I raise don't just tolerate heat, they thrive in it without pampering. Chikens came from the tropic's and have been breed for generations to tolerate colder weather. But: It's getting hotter each year people, think about that when choosing your flock.

I want to be more self sufficient and I don't want to order the big monopoly chicks each year. Wonder how many thousands they will loose this summer to heat.

 

[dancingbear]

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I can see how you could have meant that, you just put your sentences in the wrong order to convey that.

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I disagree. I don't think that many people who raise heritage breeds assume that at all. I think you are assuming that you know what we think, but you obviously don't.

Cornish X can forage, but they don't do it very well. I've raised them, I've allowed them to free-range along with my other birds, and they mostly lay around next to the feeders and eat. When I take feed away, they mostly just lay around. They wander around a bit, but the activity is way below my other birds. I've lost them to heat waves, but I've never lost a heritage bird or any dual-purpose mutt bird, to heat. Ever.

I know there are a few folks who have raised Cornish X who say they run around just like the other chickens, and perhaps some strains will. I've never seen it, but I'm willing to believe it can happen. Dual purpose and heritage birds are better suited to free-ranging. Whether you believe it or not, it's true.

As for the leghorns, and "people think they can't adapt to free-ranging", I've never even heard that from anybody but you. And that newsletter you quoted. I'm quite certain they free-range just fine. They're too light-weight for my liking, and tend to be high strung, nervous birds. I like calmer, less hysterical birds. I'm sure there are those who've had calm Leghorns. Or maybe those people just have a calming influence on chickens.

I often read that "people who raise heritage or dual purpose birds think...blah blah blah" then there's some bunch of nonsense to follow. A whole lot of us have stated over and over what we think, and it's not the stuff you posted that "we think." I don't know where you get these ideas.

You don't need to tell me to "chill out", I'm not speaking in anger. Maybe in minor annoyance, but certainly not blowing any gaskets. The rest of what I said still stands, it's valid, and I think that you simply misunderstand the motives of people who don't raise commercial-type chickens.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

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I can see how you could have meant that, you just put your sentences in the wrong order to convey that.

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I disagree. I don't think that many people who raise heritage breeds assume that at all. I think you are assuming that you know what we think, but you obviously don't.

Cornish X can forage, but they don't do it very well. I've raised them, I've allowed them to free-range along with my other birds, and they mostly lay around next to the feeders and eat. When I take feed away, they mostly just lay around. They wander around a bit, but the activity is way below my other birds. I've lost them to heat waves, but I've never lost a heritage bird or any dual-purpose mutt bird, to heat. Ever.

I know there are a few folks who have raised Cornish X who say they run around just like the other chickens, and perhaps some strains will. I've never seen it, but I'm willing to believe it can happen. Dual purpose and heritage birds are better suited to free-ranging. Whether you believe it or not, it's true.

As for the leghorns, and "people think they can't adapt to free-ranging", I've never even heard that from anybody but you. And that newsletter you quoted. I'm quite certain they free-range just fine. They're too light-weight for my liking, and tend to be high strung, nervous birds. I like calmer, less hysterical birds. I'm sure there are those who've had calm Leghorns. Or maybe those people just have a calming influence on chickens.

I often read that "people who raise heritage or dual purpose birds think...blah blah blah" then there's some bunch of nonsense to follow. A whole lot of us have stated over and over what we think, and it's not the stuff you posted that "we think." I don't know where you get these ideas.

You don't need to tell me to "chill out", I'm not speaking in anger. Maybe in minor annoyance, but certainly not blowing any gaskets. The rest of what I said still stands, it's valid, and I think that you simply misunderstand the motives of people who don't raise commercial-type chickens.

You came off sounding very rude. Excuse me if my sentence wasn't in the proper order for you.

I definitely don't misunderstand the motives of people who don't raise commercial type chickens. I have many of those same motives. I just found that I personally like cornish x better because I can get more meat for my money. And maybe you haven't seen cornish x forage, but mine last year foraged just as well as all my layers. They had the run of our whole acre, and they'd run (yes, run) around with the layers when they saw me or if they were running after a bug. Do a search, I posted a video I took of them running around.

And how can you say, "I don't think that many people who raise heritage breeds assume that at all." in one sentence and then say "Dual purpose and heritage birds are better suited to free-ranging. Whether you believe it or not, it's true." In your experiences, dual purpose/heritage breeds may have been better, but in my experiences Cornish were just as good. So that doesn't make you the authority on better breeds more than it makes me one. It's all about opinions and you know what they say about those.

"A whole lot of us have stated over and over what we think, and it's not the stuff you posted that "we think." I don't know where you get these ideas." I wasn't saying that's what "you" think, I was saying that was the point of the article!

I'm raising commercial type chickens, but I'll bet my motives very similar to "your" motives.

 

[Bossroo]

Yea, I raised the dual purpose for over 6 decades, then I came across the Cornish X 3 years ago, so I did a side by side comparison between them. My dual purpose processed carcasses looked puny and took 2 1/2 times longer to raise for a decent carcass ! Result: $$$ saved in my pocket and more TIME with my family. I culled all of the dual purpose, breeders and all.

... RIP ... Some of us that successfuly raise the Cornish X just get "MORE BANG FOR OUR BUCK " !!!

 

[dancingbear]

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And so have you.

Your sentences (plural) were not "in the wrong order for me", they were in the wrong order to convey what you meant in English. I pointed it out to explain why I misunderstood what you wrote. If you re-read that part objectively, w/o being PO'd, you might see what I mean.

"I thought it was interesting, and I thought I'd share in case you haven't read it. There are always debates on this forum about cornish x vs. FR and other meat breeds. Much of it is geared towards layers, but the concepts are the same for meat breeds."

Had you said, "I thought it was interesting, and I thought I'd share in case you haven't read it. Much of it is geared towards layers, but the concepts are the same for meat breeds. So I posted it, as there are always debates on this forum about cornish x vs. FR and other meat breeds," your meaning would have been clearer.

That's not MY personal rules of English, it's just the way our language works. When you put things in the wrong order, your meaning doesn't come across.

I did not say that Cornish X can't forage. I said DP's and Heritage are better suited to forage. In general, that's true. In your case, good for you, that you managed your birds so that they did forage well, and were very active. Sounds like you, personally, do a very good job with them. That's very often not the case, and I'm sure you're aware of that.

There are big differences between layer varieties and meat varieties. Their management is different, too.

Bossroo, if all anybody ever cared about was time and money, you'd be right for everybody. But there are a lot of us who are concerned with other things. Money is not the biggest concern for everybody.

As far as time with the family goes, I don't spend all day standing around watching the chickens, regardless of what breeds I have, so my daily time away from anything else while tending the birds is minimal. Of course, I'm not raising hundreds or thousands at a time, either, and don't intend to do so in the future. My DP and heritage birds take less cleaning up after, as they don't constantly poop huge amounts of watery poop, and spend almost all of their daylight time outside anyway.

I know from reading your posts in the past that you have a hard time grasping this, but not everybody is in your exact situation. My DH is a truck driver, my kids are grown, and live on the other side of the country. Having a different breed of chicken isn't going to let me spend any additional time with any of them.

I like having chickens around all of time. I enjoy them. I like to see all the different colors and patterns. I like to see them run around and do funny things. I like watching them do things like catch a big bug and then play "bug football", chasing each other all over for it. I like having fresh eggs all year. I like having broody hens hatching chicks. I like seeing the different colors and patterns develop in the young birds as they grow up. I like cross breeding to see what I get.

If I only raised Cornish X, I would not get any of that. I'd just have plain white birds, eating and pooping for a few weeks, marathon processing, then nothing, until the next time. That's what you like, you're welcome to it. It's boring drudgery, to me.

 

[Bossroo]

We place great value to our kids and grandkids and manage to spend holidays, birthdays, graduations, special events together on a regular basis. For 6 decades we raised the dual purpose birds ... we cared and fed them daily whether rain or shine , freezing or blistering hot as they provided food, life's experiences and hard work habits for our kids while they grew up. They whent away to college, married, then moved away and had their own kids. Life goes on!

Now, by only having to care, feed and clean up after our clean sleek white Cornish X for 6-8 weeks and then butcher them in one swoop to send them to freezer camp allows us the freedom to drive 1-2 days and 13-15 hours straight/day to visit them for a few days to 2 weeks at a time. Freedom to be there when the grandkids are born,enjoy watching them grow,play , play catch with a real football with them and watch them learn about family values. And yes, read them bedtime stories on our knee , then tuck them in to sleep in their own bed.

These things are much more important than watching a few multicolored chickens running around playing "bug football". Some may have a hard time grasping the concept of freedom of TIME to spend with family. Which is PRICELESS !!!

 

[aggieterpkatie]

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And so have you.

Your sentences (plural) were not "in the wrong order for me", they were in the wrong order to convey what you meant in English. I pointed it out to explain why I misunderstood what you wrote. If you re-read that part objectively, w/o being PO'd, you might see what I mean.

"I thought it was interesting, and I thought I'd share in case you haven't read it. There are always debates on this forum about cornish x vs. FR and other meat breeds. Much of it is geared towards layers, but the concepts are the same for meat breeds."

Had you said, "I thought it was interesting, and I thought I'd share in case you haven't read it. Much of it is geared towards layers, but the concepts are the same for meat breeds. So I posted it, as there are always debates on this forum about cornish x vs. FR and other meat breeds," your meaning would have been clearer.

That's not MY personal rules of English, it's just the way our language works. When you put things in the wrong order, your meaning doesn't come across.

I did not say that Cornish X can't forage. I said DP's and Heritage are better suited to forage. In general, that's true. In your case, good for you, that you managed your birds so that they did forage well, and were very active. Sounds like you, personally, do a very good job with them. That's very often not the case, and I'm sure you're aware of that.

There are big differences between layer varieties and meat varieties. Their management is different, too.

I said, "There are always debates on this forum...'. It wouldn't be correct to assume I was talking about "debates" when I said, "Much of it is geared towards layers" because that wouldn't be grammatically correct. It would have had to say, "Many of them are geared towards layers" since "debates" is plural and "much of it" has to be describing a singular subject.

Anyhoo.

Thanks, IMO I did do a very good job for them. That is the whole point of the article. "Modern" breeds do just as well as heritage breeds when you manage them properly.

Money may not be the biggest concern for everyone, which is fine, but IMO, "wasting" feed (which is the same as money) is not sustainable.

 

[Buster52]

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Meaning if you jump through hoops you can get most of them to live to the ripe old age of 8 weeks without keeling over from a heart attack. They might live 10 if you stretch and are willing to risk losing a few more. Very few would live much beyond that except a few relative runts.

My heritage birds, I feed them when they are out of feed, water them when they are out of water, open the coop or tractor each day, gather eggs, once in a blue moon clean the coop, and that's pretty much it. The rest they take care of themselves.

There are advantages to both the hybrid beasties and the heritage breeds. It is a mistake to try to pretend they are the same. The advantage of the X bird is that it gets big fast on relatively little feed. That's pretty much it. All the rest, advantage heritage. They are hardier, forage better, live longer, require very little care, and (most importantly in my view) taste much much better.

Oh, and the Cornish X is neither sustainable nor a breed. It is a hybrid that relies heavily on a completely unsustainable factory farm breeding system and must be shipped in each season as opposed to bred and raised on the farm.

 

[dancingbear]

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You don't know my health status, my financial status, the living situations of my kids, where I'd need to stay on a visit, what it would cost, etc. It's not as simple as "Oh I have chickens and so I can't go visit the kids." My chickens don't prevent my visiting the kids. If I needed to be gone for some time, and we only had DP's, my DH would take care of them while I was gone. He has a dedicated run, he's home one morning, then gone overnight, home the next evening. He could take care of the birds and they'd be fine.

My health and physical condition makes long trips difficult for me. The kids don't always have someplace to put me. They have difficulties of their own. I don't have the money to fly out there and pay for a motel or hotel room for the whole visit, plus rent a car. Raising CX's instead of DP's would not change that. I would not suddenly have all kinds of extra money to pend on travel whenever I wanted to go.

I did not trade time with my kids and grandkids for chickens of any kind.

 

[Bossroo]

Yup, I traded year round 365 daily chores after 6 decades with the dual purpose chickens

for 42-56 days of chores with the Cornish X .

This decision liberated me the time to not only spend traveling to enjoy visiting our kids and grandkids, where we are always warmly welcomed, but daily carefree time to spend with my wife for the remaining 323-309 days of the year...

PRICELESS !!!