Bad news...thoughts?

[Kat2141]

Pretty crazy to think that we have perpetuated the worsening of this disease. You would think that if we have known for so long that the vaccine is "leaky", then why not work to fix it?!

really! and it is kind of scary that they know that some of the human vaccines are "leaky"... what if that does the same thing that Mareks did?!

 

[micstrachan]

I am sorry you are dealing with this and would take @rebrascora ‘s approach if Iwere faced with it.

Having said that, can you clarify something? The lab confirmed Marek’s on a declining, but live bird? I didn’t think that was possible. Or was the bird euthanized and then necropsied?

 

[RyRe2010]

I am sorry you are dealing with this and would take @rebrascora ‘s approach if Iwere faced with it.

Having said that, can you clarify something? The lab confirmed Marek’s on a declining, but live bird? I didn’t think that was possible. Or was the bird euthanized and then necropsied?

They offered to euthanize her for me and did the necropsy same day. That poor bird :-( she was so sick from the Listeria and Mareks. She also had an aspergillus infection in her lungs. All of her organs were affected from the Listeria. Reading her report made me sad. Wish I could have done more for her. They said because the Mareks had flared, it allowed numerous secondary infections to take place. All things that in a healthy bird, they wouldn't have been phased by it.

 

[rebrascora]

They said because the Mareks had flared, it allowed numerous secondary infections to take place. All things that in a healthy bird, they wouldn't have been phased by it.

This is so true and why so many people do not realise that their birds have Marek's. They think that these secondary infections are the cause of their illness and that they just don't respond to treatment for some reason.
For instance, any bird suffering from coccidiosis when they are past the stage of first being exposed to the ground should be looked upon with suspicion for Marek's in my opinion, unless there is some other factor like being moved to a new home where different strains that they have not previously encountered, challenge their system.

 

[RyRe2010]

I totally agree. It's amazing how strong and fragile chickens are, all at the same time *_*
@rebrascora
What do you do with your birds now. Do you sell or give them away? If you do, how do you go about that? Purdue says I could sell any chicks/eggs and vaccinated pullets/cockerels...
Originally, I wanted to breed blue Ameraucana and blue copper marans with possible EE and OE options. But now, I am not sure if I can?

 

[rebrascora]

I don't sell at all. I have given away a few healthy adult birds that had never had any symptoms, to a couple of friends who did not have any other poultry and live locally and both groups of 3 have been fine for a year and a half. Sadly one group got wiped out by a fox a few weeks ago, but neither group has shown any symptoms of Marek's in that time which is encouraging. Other than those 2 occasions, I have kept a closed flock. I didn't raise any chicks last year because I was wanting to down scale. This year I have raised 7 chicks, 4 of which are of course cockerels which will be processed, so just 3 pullets. They are currently 8 weeks and 13weeks, so I am nervously on the look out for any tell tale signs. If they put a foot down wrong or stand on their own toes occasionally I try not to panic but make a mental note. The older 4 are a new experiment as they are not from my flock and were hatching eggs that I bought in and they were broody raised by a hen that had her first outbreak of Marek's 7 months ago at the age of 5 years. She recovered (obviously) and was very keen to be a mother this summer, so I relented. I only have one pullet from that hatch and she is a leghorn so quite timid and flighty but holding her own reasonably ok in the laying flock since I removed her 3 sibling brothers, which are now in a grow out pen. The other 3 were co brooded and are still with one of their broody mothers in the laying flock..... I believe that broody rearing promotes a stronger immune system and raising them within the flock prevents any integration stress which can be a trigger.

I think you probably need to shelve your "breeding" goals for the time being and just figure out how to manage your strain of the disease. I also think that raising farmyard mutts can be beneficial over line breeding in these cases as they are just more hardy, so maybe play around with that initially and see how you get on.

 

[Melky]

I have to begin this with a warning. Make sure you always quarantine new chickens for the 30 days...if not, you'll end up making/paying a costly mistake.
I am relatively new to chickens, coming up on my 2nd year and I have added new adult birds with no problem. I did that last year...
This year, I was given 4 birds in April, which I am 100% positive, brought Mareks into my yard/flock.
Since this, I have lost 2 of the birds from that 4 and 7 of my others...
I recently took one of my pullets who was declining fast to our Purdue Animal Disease and Diagnostic Lab.
Confirmed my suspicion for Mareks (my whole flock has been exposed) but she also had listeria and was septic with it. Listeria is a naturally occurring bacteria but can also be a normal gut flora.
After I took her in, which was about 3 to 4 weeks ago, I have since lost 3 more birds...which as we know, Mareks causes immuno suppression, and I believe I have a listeria outbreak, which also poses a great Zoonotic risk. But, without testing these birds, it's just suspicion according to symptoms.
I called the Purdue ADDL and their reccomendation is to cull ALL remaining birds, 24 in total. And start from a clean slate...I totally understand the reasoning. I do, I get it.
I am having a hard time just going and killing all of my birds...what if some of them do have the immunity and genetics to survive this??
I'm just torn. Do I let survival of the fittest take place. Or do I cull them all. I realize this is a personal decision but I'm just reaching out to see thoughts and opinions of others.
This has been a VERY COSTLY learning experience for me :-( not as in price, but lives of my birds.
Thanks for your time!!

I agree with Mimi. So sorry. I Know it is tempting to break best practice management but this is why and hopefully others can learn from this costly mistake. You need to follow the professional advice as soon as possible.

 

[Melky]

I have to begin this with a warning. Make sure you always quarantine new chickens for the 30 days...if not, you'll end up making/paying a costly mistake.
I am relatively new to chickens, coming up on my 2nd year and I have added new adult birds with no problem. I did that last year...
This year, I was given 4 birds in April, which I am 100% positive, brought Mareks into my yard/flock.
Since this, I have lost 2 of the birds from that 4 and 7 of my others...
I recently took one of my pullets who was declining fast to our Purdue Animal Disease and Diagnostic Lab.
Confirmed my suspicion for Mareks (my whole flock has been exposed) but she also had listeria and was septic with it. Listeria is a naturally occurring bacteria but can also be a normal gut flora.
After I took her in, which was about 3 to 4 weeks ago, I have since lost 3 more birds...which as we know, Mareks causes immuno suppression, and I believe I have a listeria outbreak, which also poses a great Zoonotic risk. But, without testing these birds, it's just suspicion according to symptoms.
I called the Purdue ADDL and their reccomendation is to cull ALL remaining birds, 24 in total. And start from a clean slate...I totally understand the reasoning. I do, I get it.
I am having a hard time just going and killing all of my birds...what if some of them do have the immunity and genetics to survive this??
I'm just torn. Do I let survival of the fittest take place. Or do I cull them all. I realize this is a personal decision but I'm just reaching out to see thoughts and opinions of others.
This has been a VERY COSTLY learning experience for me :-( not as in price, but lives of my birds.
Thanks for your time!![/QUOTE

If interested in restarting a flock after Mareks Disease I would ask for professional recommendations for what to do if interested in starting another flock. The environment needs to be cleaned totally and all removable items out from infected birds. I have vaccinated and raised all my birds from day one, keep a clean well ventilated environment, and have a closed flock. So far I have been lucky with no diseases and I hope god continues to bless us this way. Prayers!

 

[rebrascora]

@Melky If everyone who had Marek's in their flock, culled their whole flock that would probably amount to about 30% of all back yard chickens, maybe more, and not restocking for several years otherwise they risk reinfection of new stock. Marek's is so common and widespread 30% may be a conservative estimate. Better to keep the flock members that survive and work towards chickens that have natural resistance in my opinion. I am not a fan of the vaccine due to the likelihood of it promoting mutation to more aggressive and resistant strains of the virus and many people who have vaccinated birds will also have Marek's because the vaccine does not prevent them becoming infected with the disease, just helps them to survive it.

I can accept/understand culling the sick bird rather than providing supportive care because sick birds are actively shedding the virus, whereas in the dormant phase they just carry it, but killing birds that may be resistant to it is just shooting yourself in the foot in my opinion. I appreciate that the official advice has been to cull but you have to bear in mind that the vaccine is also officially sanctioned and that is not perfect either, so don't assume that because the authorities recommend a course of action, that it is necessarily the best one to take. I accept that vaccination may be the best way forward for some people, but it may be that we all pay in the price in the long run because Marek's appears to be becoming increasingly deadly as a result. Conversely you can say that people who do not cull are perpetuating the disease, but I would rather have a minor disease that kills the odd bird but many survive than a disease that devastates whole flocks and is rampantly mutating with the potential at some point for becoming zoonotic...... Just my opinion!

 

[RyRe2010]

@rebrascora Thank you so much for your advice and insight. The news when I got it, was devastating and I felt like there must be something else I can do. I feel like what you're doing is awesome and I hope my flock will become like that.
Yeah :-( hate to put it on a back burner, but you're right! I had hopes of eventually breeding dark and colorful eggs like Fat Hen Farms and The Fourteen Acres!
In your experience, do your new pullets take longer to start to lay? Also, what do you do daily/weekly/monthly for your birds to keep as healthy as possible.
I feed mine Kalmbach non gmo layer crumbles with added omegas. They also get a side of oyster shell that is by the door of the coop as needed. They get very little treats, but when the do, it's a cool evening for scratch or some leftover fruits and veggies from inside.
I have started giving them yogurt with added probiotics because a healthy gut in my opinion is a key to maintaining balance in the body.
After the article Kat posted, I'm not sure if I'm going to vaccinate for Mareks...we just continue to worsen this virus...
Hopefully in the end, strong genetics play out!