Baking Soda/Vinegar ratio for Euthanasia?

[Stacykins]

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[Stacykins]

triple post

 

[Three Cedars Silkies]

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This X 10000000000000

 

[HathawayHens]

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I agree, this is why alot of people choose to off themselves with the ol' running car in the garage. Its also why carbon monoxide is such a lethal killer to humans. there is no struggle whatsoever- no warning. It just puts you right to sleep... Why do you think alot of homes have CO2 detectors? Because we cannot sense ourselves when we have a leak. Its stealthy and we do not FEEL it coming.

You guys are confusing carbon MONOXIDE (CO) and carbon DIOXIDE (CO2) this home method makes CO2, which actually causes you to feel like you are hyperventilating and suffocating... it's like rebreathing into a paper bag until you pass out and die. Carbon monoxide is the gas that makes you fall asleep, get nauseous, and die. Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[TarHeelBlue]

I agree with Junkmanme!!! Why do you have to cull it??? I would make it comfortable and try to save it (what's the problem with it)
Guess I just can't play God even with chicks!

 

[gitlost80]

He had a bulge on the right side of his head that consumed the eye,making it bulge out of his head with no eyelids.He couldnt lift his head for a while. I thought he might get stronger later, which he did,but his feet were curled in so he couldnt walk good.I put a thin layer of vasaline over the eye so it wouldnt get dry since he couldnt blink, took him out and blow dryed him till he was fluffy. The next day I taped his toes to try and uncurl them. I noticed right away that he was trying to eat and drink, but for some reason couldnt.He would take a drink,start to freak out shake his head and flop around screaming. He then started to cry constantly.I took the splints off his feet because he didnt like them. I then discovered he didnt have a Rectal opening. I made my decision when the crying was non stop and sounded painful. The other chicks wouldnt go near him and all he wanted was to cuddle up next to them.My heart was hurting.I held him to try and comfort him,he was very strong. I found the way I THOUGHT WAS BEST,whether it was or not is debatable, but I never started this thread to make enemies, and didnt ask for opinions on methods, and what they do. So thanks, but no thanks. Your negativity hasnt made anything easier for me,but if it makes YOU feel better, than shoot away.I never wrote that any other method was cruel,I just stated that I couldnt do it myself. Maybe someone should start a thread on the different methods and how cruel you all think they are. I wont be reading this thread anymore because it has gotten mean and nasty. I never asked for anyones opinion-Than

 

[halo]

The question of culling chicks has always been, no matter what people say, the least painful method for the person, not the chick. Otherwise, why would people advocate ways to kill a chick that take several minutes. The quickest way to kill a chick is snipping the head off, but thats the most painful way for a person who doesnt want to deal with it. The chick is dead in a second, not minutes, with no suffering or struggling.

People need to ask themselves very seriously when considering culling, are you doing whats best for the chick, or whats more bearable for you.

 

[chickened]

I believe the OP was mistaken about using CO2 and meant CO (which I was curious why you responded with using CO2 and not CO, nobody uses CO2 for euthanasia) Yes, I know the difference (Hazmat training)it would not be a humane way to go. Sorry my mistake,
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I am talking about carbon DIOXIDE. Not carbon MONOXIDE. The former is CO2, the latter is CO. Please read before responding

Death by CO is quite painless, because the body does not have ways to detect high CO levels and realize something is wrong. In addition, hemoglobin has a much higher affinity to CO than it does to O2 (oxygen), so in the presense of high CO levels, the blood levels of O2 become very low.

 

[Stacykins]

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I am talking about carbon DIOXIDE. Not carbon MONOXIDE. The former is CO2, the latter is CO. Please read before responding

Death by CO is quite painless, because the body does not have ways to detect high CO levels and realize something is wrong. In addition, hemoglobin has a much higher affinity to CO than it does to O2 (oxygen), so in the presense of high CO levels, the blood levels of O2 become very low.


The OP did just use CO2 for euthanasia, however. As far as I am aware, the reaction between baking soda and vinegar results in CO2 as one of the products, not CO. That would make every school science volcano project pretty dangerous if CO was created in that reaction.

 

[gitlost80]

Introduction

When efforts to prolong the life of a beloved pet serve only to prolong death, euthanasia (Greek for "good death") should be considered. Veterinarians have the means and training to put animals which are beyond treatment and recovery to sleep humanely. While the services of a veterinarian should be one's first choice, some pet owners, for a variety of reasons, are choosing not to take their dying pets to a veterinarian: The services of a vet may not be available when they are needed; transporting the pet to the vet might be too disturbing, causing fear and discomfort in the pet's final hours; cost may be an issue. For whatever reason, some pet owners are attempting at-home euthanasia with varying results. The following information is offered, as a public service, to help these pet owners succeed, and not, by mistake or ignorance, add to their pet's suffering by using questionable, untested, or ill-considered methods such as using engine exhaust fumes.

Of those methods for euthanasia approved by the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) 1, the only method that could be used safely at home involves the use of carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide (CO2) is heavier than air and nearly odorless. In low concentrations (7.5%) it is an analgesic (pain reliever), and at medium concentrations (30%-40%) it can be used as an anesthetic, causing rapid loss of consciousness without struggling, distress, or excitation. 3 At high concentrations (>80%) CO2 causes quick death. High concentrations, however, painfully irritate eyes and the respiratory tract, so it is important to first induce an analgesic effect, then bring about deep anesthesia (within 1 to 2 minutes) before exposing the animal to high concentrations. Because the AVMA believes that the flow of CO2 can be regulated adequately only by using compressed CO2, only the use of CO2 cylinders is approved. The following method, being adapted for home use, does not require the use of compressed gas cylinders. The AVMA Panel on Euthanasia has not been asked to approve the following method, and no approval is implied. The author is satisfied that the method is sound and readers should judge for themselves.

The AVMA approves the use of CO2 for euthanasia in most small animals including amphibians, birds, reptiles, rodents, and other small mammals weighing less than two pounds (1 kg). Some amphibians and reptiles, however, may breathe too slowly or be able to hold their breath for long periods of time making other methods of euthanasia preferable. Also some burrowing and diving animals (such as some species of rabbit and marine mammals) have prolonged survival times when exposed to CO2. Also excluded from AVMA approval would be all cats and dogs, even small ones. The following method has been tested only on rodents.


Making Carbon Dioxide

You may have had occasion to mix vinegar (5% acetic acid) and baking soda (NaHCO3) together and see all the bubbles produced. The bubbles are carbon dioxide gas, and 1 gram of baking soda reacts with 15 ml of vinegar (or other 5% acid) to produce 291 cc of CO2. In kitchen measurement terms, 1 cup of vinegar reacts with 1.2 tablespoons (3.6 tsp.) of baking soda to produce 1.2 gallons of CO2, or one gallon of vinegar would react with 1.25 cups of baking soda to produce 20 gallons of CO2. Both white vinegar and baking soda are inexpensive, and using more baking soda than the minimum amount given above does no harm.

You might want to expose the animal to the smell of vinegar to see if the odor is distressing or not. Rodents seem to like the smell. If the pet has a strong negative reaction, you might consider using muriatic acid (HCl) or swimming pool acid. These acids are concentrated and potentially hazardous, so be sure to determine their concentration and dilute them to make a 5% solution first (add acid to water, never add water to concentrated acid). If you are at all uncomfortable handling or diluting acid, just use the white vinegar. The CO2 that is produced may or may not have a significant vinegar smell. The vinegar odor question is probably a non-issue, but just in case there is an odor that the animal might react to, you should put some vinegar in the euthanasia chamber so the animal gets used to the smell before the CO2 is introduced.


The Carbon Dioxide Chamber

It is best to react the baking soda and acid in a separate container, directing the CO2 through a hose and into the euthanasia chamber, because there is a possibility that the fizzing sound of the reaction might frighten the animal. The simplest chamber is a plastic bag about 1 gallon in size. Put 3 tablespoons of baking soda into the bottom of the bag. Use a 2-cup measuring cup or a 16 oz glass and secure a 3-foot piece of 1/2 inch hose (vinyl hose is sold by the foot in most hardware stores, or a section of garden hose could be used) to the outside of the cup or glass near the top with a rubber band or tape.

Fill the cup or glass with 2-cups of vinegar, and set it in the bag on top of the baking soda. Pull the excess plastic up and wrap it tightly around the hose, securing it with a wire twist tie. Make sure you don't spill any of the vinegar.





The Euthanasia Chamber

If the animal is largely inactive and small enough (CO2 euthanasia is not recommended for animals over 2 pounds), a one-gallon jar or juice pitcher works well, or a one-gallon plastic jug could be used if the top is partially cut off so it will hinge up and can later be taped closed. A box, open only at the top and about the size of a gallon jug, could also be used. Add familiar litter (for rodents), a special toy, or whatever might comfort your pet. Making a little nest and covering it with a cloth, or wadded or shredded paper, may help calm and comfort your pet as much as possible. Covering also prevents wandering about during the final minute. If the animal were free to walk about it would begin to stagger and act drunk or confused before loss of consciousness. This is not something you want to see--not how your pet would want you to remember them, so limit your pet's ability to move about. It may even be possible to get your pet to fall asleep.

If you are using a jar, cover the top with a piece of plastic with a hole made in it for the hose, and another small hole to allow the air to escape as the CO2 enters. You might want to suck on the hose to remove most of the air in the plastic bag containing the baking soda and container of vinegar before putting the hose into the euthanasia container (if you do a good job of pulling up all loose plastic, this step should not be required).

If you must hold the pet in order to comfort it, you could put your arm in the container along with the end of the hose, and wrap a cloth around both to partially seal the opening. The air in the container must be permitted to escape as the CO2 enters, so make sure the top is not completely sealed.

Initially the hose should extend about 2 inches into the chamber. When all is ready, hold the cup or glass through the plastic bag, and slowly pour out half of the vinegar so that it takes about 1 minute to pour one cup out and into the bag (leaving one cup of vinegar still in the cup or glass). You will hear a fizz as the acid reacts with the baking soda. Gas will begin to fill the bag, then flow through the hose and into the euthanasia chamber. Make sure the hose doesn't fall into the liquid, as the expanding gas would then force the liquid through the hose. Since CO2 is heavier than air, it will fall down into the euthanasia chamber mixing with the air, and so gradually increase the CO2 concentration. In 1 to 2 minutes the animal should be in deep anesthesia and breathing deeply. Touching an eye should produce no response. If you are holding your pet, it will be completely limp. If you are not holding the animal and can't see it, just shake the container a bit and listen. There should be no movement. Do not open the container to check or reach in as this will introduce air and possibly reawaken the animal.

Finally, push the hose down near the bottom of the container and pour out the remaining vinegar into the bag. When most of the fizzing subsides, you might squeeze the bag, if it seems to contain a lot of gas, to force out the remaining CO2. This final flow will flood the chamber with a high concentration of CO2 stopping respiration in minutes if not seconds. Now cover the chamber and wait 10-30 minutes before checking (longer for amphibians or reptiles).

Rats euthanized by increasing CO2 levels to 33% over 1 minute, then killed using high levels of CO2 while still in their home cage showed no signs of stress either by behavior or by subsequent blood tests for ACTH, glucose, and corticosterone which would be abnormal if the rats had experienced anything distressing. 2 This is strong evidence that CO2 euthanasia is as "good" a death as can be achieved in a home setting.


Materials Required

1. One gallon of white vinegar.
2. One pound box of baking soda.
3. Tablespoon to measure baking soda.
4. One-gallon container: Jar, pitcher, plastic jug, or box with opening only at top (euthanasia chamber).
5. Hose, 1/2 inch inside diameter, about 3 feet long.
6. One gallon size plastic bag--zip-lock works well (carbon dioxide chamber).
7. Twist tie to secure plastic bag to hose.
8. 16-ounce cup (measuring cup) or 16-ounce glass.
9. Rubber band or tape to secure hose to cup or glass on the outside near the top.
10. Plastic or cloth to partially seal the top of the euthanasia chamber around hose, or arm and hose, if using a jar or box.


Variation in Method

If the animal is too active, or you can't obtain the materials needed for the above procedure, you could put the animal in a small cage, a travel cage, or box with holes in it. Put about 1 and a half cups of baking soda in the bottom of a large plastic bag. Put the cage or box into the bag raised about 4 inches above the bottom. Open a gallon jug of vinegar and reach into the bag with it. You might want to put a barrier between the cage and jug so none can accidentally be spilled into the cage. Gather up as much of the plastic as you can around your arm so that as much air has been removed as possible and tie or hold the bag about your arm tightly. Slowly pour out the vinegar so that about a quarter of it has been poured out over a period of about 1 minute (or until the volume of the bag has inflated so it is about 1/3 larger than it was). Set the jug down inside the bag and fan the air with your hand to mix air and CO2 for about 1 minute. Then loosen the bag around your arm a bit to allow gas to escape, and continue to pour the vinegar out until the jug is empty. Remove your arm and close the bag. Wait at least 10-30 minutes before checking to verify death. As mentioned, one problem with this procedure is that the fizzing might frighten the animal.