Bantam lethargic, pale comb, but eating.

[PuddleEndChicken]

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me.

I've got a flock of 20 mixed chickens and bantams including 1 bantam rooster and they are all locked down in a barn at the moment due to the Avian flu regulations in the UK.

Today something's not right today with one of my little Pekin bantam hens, called Daisy .

I'm not sure how old she is, but at least 2 years old. She's never really laid eggs or gone broody. She arrived with us as part of a group of 4 Pekins (rooster and 3 bantams) and in the last 6 months the rooster and one of the bantams died suddenly with not much wrong with them so I guess the whole group might be quite old ?

Last night I noticed that she roosted on quite a low perch as if she didn't have the energy to get higher and she seemed to be leaning on another bantam, I thought it was because she was cold as it's going below freezing in the UK at night at the moment and the chickens are all huddled up. She seemed OK in the day today.

Then this evening I found her in the corner on the floor motionless when the rest had gone up to roost. I brought her inside and put her by a warm heater and then suddenly she sort of perked up, opened her eyes and then she ate loads - a scrambled egg and a handful of grain, didn't really drink. Now she's sitting with her eyes closed, by the heater.

I examined her as follows:

• has lost a lot of weight, can feel keel bone protruding
• no mites or lice (she was sprayed a few months back)
• she was wormed a few months back
• is just finishing moulting, feathers a bit ruffled
• comb is pale pink instead of red - iron deficiency ?
• neck drawn in, sort of hunched
• she was a bit wobbly on her feet earlier
• crop does not have blockage or seem sour (ie full of liquid)
• no obstruction in vent
• vent and feet a bit muddy but don't think it is diarrohea
• no breathing difficulties
• eyes and beak and ears normal
• no signs of bumblefoot
• rest of flock are fine and they haven't been outside since early December so don't think it could be avian flu

Is the pale comb a sign of anemia from lice/mites/worms even though I treated her for both in the autumn ? Should I treat her again ?

If she's anemic should I give iron and if so in what form ?

Is she just old and feeling the cold as she really perked up and started eating well when she was in the warm ?

In this lockdown environment could she be being bullied (she's quite low in the pecking order) and unable to access food ? It's a big barn and I've spread the food for 20 chickens out across 4 feeders to minimize fighting.

I can't think of anything else but I'd really welcome everyone suggestions as I hope I can get her better again.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[azygous]

The symptoms are consistent with starvation and hypothermia. Your suspicion that she may be being bullied points to her not getting enough to eat, which can make a chicken weak.

If the chicken isn't getting enough to eat, they are much more susceptible to cold and hypothermia. That she perked up when warmed up and fed is also a clue that this may be what's going on with her.

Short term, give her sugar water and electrolytes. This will counter the effects of shock from hypothermia. Keep her in a warm place until you know she has stabilized and recovered. Feed carbs and high protein.

Long term, you need to sit and observe your flock and how they are interacting under lockdown. Return this sick hen to the flock before you tackle this project. She may need to reintegrate gradually if she's been bullied.

If you see she's not able to stand up for herself at the feeders, and there should be several, not just one, then you will need to address the bullying issue. https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/chicken-bully-chicken-victim-a-two-sided-issue.73923/

 

[PuddleEndChicken]

The symptoms are consistent with starvation and hypothermia. Your suspicion that she may be being bullied points to her not getting enough to eat, which can make a chicken weak.

If the chicken isn't getting enough to eat, they are much more susceptible to cold and hypothermia. That she perked up when warmed up and fed is also a clue that this may be what's going on with her.

Short term, give her sugar water and electrolytes. This will counter the effects of shock from hypothermia. Keep her in a warm place until you know she has stabilized and recovered. Feed carbs and high protein.

Long term, you need to sit and observe your flock and how they are interacting under lockdown. Return this sick hen to the flock before you tackle this project. She may need to reintegrate gradually if she's been bullied.

If you see she's not able to stand up for herself at the feeders, and there should be several, not just one, then you will need to address the bullying issue. https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/chicken-bully-chicken-victim-a-two-sided-issue.73923/

Thank you, that's really helpful. She's still eating a lot and sleeping in between, her crop is filling up now.

Pale comb is the only indicator of something wrong - can that be starvation/hypothermia or might there be something else going on ?

I'll definitely observe and see what's going on with the flock too.

Many thanks for your help, much appreciated.

 

[azygous]

Comb color can mean so many things, and it can be a barometer that points to how a chicken feels. I have a three hens currently that are not feeling well. One has gout, and her comb is very dusky grey-red and pale when she's hurting a lot. It gets redder as her pain is brought under control.

Another hen has a reproductive infection. She is also pale. A third hen is very old and is having torticolis issues due to a tumor on her head. When she's having a lot of stress and discomfort, her comb is very pale. As she's feeling better, her comb gets a more healthy red tint.

So, yes, no doubt your hen will get her red comb back as she gains strength from being nourished and feels better.

 

[PuddleEndChicken]

Comb color can mean so many things, and it can be a barometer that points to how a chicken feels. I have a three hens currently that are not feeling well. One has gout, and her comb is very dusky grey-red and pale when she's hurting a lot. It gets redder as her pain is brought under control.

Another hen has a reproductive infection. She is also pale. A third hen is very old and is having torticolis issues due to a tumor on her head. When she's having a lot of stress and discomfort, her comb is very pale. As she's feeling better, her comb gets a more healthy red tint.

So, yes, no doubt your hen will get her red comb back as she gains strength from being nourished and feels better.

Thank you. She's still by the heater this morning and has fluffed up a bit. She's sort of staring into space, maybe shocked by her new environment and being away from the flock or maybe still just recovering from the cold/lack of food.

If I stroke her she "wakes up" and starts eating. Since being inside she's eaten a scrambled egg and a large handful of grain and a small amount of water. She's not moving around much but seems content to sit still by the heater and just peck at food from time to time.

I always make sure there's enough food in the feeders that they don't run out during the day especially during this lockdown. There's always a little bit left by the time I come in for the next feed. Even if she was bullied, I'm not sure why she didn't come back after the rest of the flock had fed and get some food then ?

I'll keep her inside and keep monitoring her for the time being. I'm also going to check during the next feed whether any others are being bullied too....

 

[azygous]

Has she been getting sugar water? That should improve her mental alertness as glucose is brain food.

Did you read my article on bullying? It explains how bullying changes the bully victim mindset and how it then conspires against her and she starves. It has nothing to do with food being readily available when the bullying syndrome winds up.

 

[PuddleEndChicken]

Has she been getting sugar water? That should improve her mental alertness as glucose is brain food.

Did you read my article on bullying? It explains how bullying changes the bully victim mindset and how it then conspires against her and she starves. It has nothing to do with food being readily available when the bullying syndrome winds up.

Oops, sorry I missed the link but will have a read, that's really interesting thank you.

Also what sort of sugar:water ratio do you suggest to make up some sugar water ? Thanks

 

[PuddleEndChicken]

Oops, sorry I missed the link but will have a read, that's really interesting thank you.

Also what sort of sugar:water ratio do you suggest to make up some sugar water ? Thanks

Oops, sorry I missed the link but will have a read, that's really interesting thank you.

Also what sort of sugar:water ratio do you suggest to make up some sugar water ? Thanks

Sorry hit reply too soon, can you also suggest a brand of electrolytes that I can use - Ideally I'd want to have something in powder form that I can keep and mix up a little when a chicken needs it rather than keep bottles of something ? Also should I be giving some drops of vitamins into the water, I imagine the electrolytes are more important at this stage ? Thanks

 

[azygous]

The sugar-water ration I use is a teaspoon of sugar to a cup of water. More or less. It's not necessary to be precise.

 

[PuddleEndChicken]

The sugar-water ration I use is a teaspoon of sugar to a cup of water. More or less. It's not necessary to be precise.

So just to update you....

I've examined Daisy again this evening - her comb is a bit darker and she's a bit brighter, however I notice that there seems to be some swelling around her vent area, underneath her, below the pelvic bones, like a balloon partly filled with fluid, and it feels quite warm - and the rest of my bantams are much less swollen in that area. I'm wondering if she's egg bound or internal laying or something, although I can't feel any shell or egg inside her and I've never seen her in the nest boxes or lay an egg in the 2 years I've had her ? Her vent is very clean and she has pooped 3 normal poops today. I've noticed her trying to "push" a bit after I've pressed the swelling.

Separately I watched the rest of the flock (without Daisy) and yes there is a fairly large hybrid hen that has always been quiet that seems to have turned quite agressive during lockdown and is pecking at several of the bantams - my bantam rooster is doing a pretty good job of fighting her off and defending them and I can see that the top of her head is bald now where he's been pulling her around by her feathers and comb. So I've isolated the bully in the "hospital/jail" pen for a while to see if things calm down.

I'd welcome your advice on the swelling ? Many thanks