Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[mountainvieworchards]

Thanks Trisha. What I can see in my birds is there is an outer dark line in my blues that I will have to breed out. In the blue rocks I used, this outer lacing is something that people try to breed for as the blue "lacing" with a navy to black outer penciling of the feather is desirable. I have heard that some of the Andalusian blue lines have the Co gene. However what I see in the UK Blue Barnies this dark outside pencil line is not there and instead there is the just the light blue lacing both inside and outside of the red. It makes me wonder if there isn't a Co gene that came with my blues, and that would also explain incomplete lacing I think I am seeing in my oldest pullet. If this is the case, and I am not sure it is, I should still hatch some chicks that are co/co, but whether they will have Pg/Pg and Ml/Ml as well... the odds are a bit tougher. Any way I am happy so far with the shade of blue and the yellow of the legs. So as the chicks mature much will be revealed.

That fluffy hen of yours looks like she can handle 20 chicks. I had one of my Johan hens make a pretty flimsy attempt at broodiness, but she gave it up the first time I lifted her from the nest and never quit laying. I think it is mainly the Ledford line that goes reliably broody, someone please correct me if that is not the case. Maybe the KC's do as well, I would like to know. I have one hen that is half KC half Johan and she has never gone broody.

Andy

 

[tls_ranch]

Andy,
I'm not sure about the Co and it's relationship to the darker edge to the Andalusian blue lacing. I have read that Co creates the single-laced breast look in roosters like in single laced Wyandottes. My blue roo is solid breasted with very little Andalusian blue lacing.

I'm sure I've bred out the Co in my blues because the pullets are double laced and the cockerels have solid blue or black breasts. But, I do have some sort of Andalusian blue lacing on my darkest cockerels and it seems that the darker they are... the more it shows. I've seen both solid "clear" blue breasts on UK males and some with the dark lacing.

I'll have to look and see what is the UK standard for Blue double laced Barnevelders..though the US doesn't have a standard yet.

Here's two young blue cockerels that show the darker edge to their breast feathers. I think it may be due more melanizers than Co????


My vB's have gone broody occasionally, but none of my KC hens did. My last remaining KC hen is 4 years-old. The really broody ones are my blue project hens and cornevelders. Both lines make good mothers. The black broody I showed in the pics...is very fluffy and more wyandotte in feathering. I haven't used her for breeding, but she has lots of feathers to keep babies warm, LOL. Her mother once hatched out 17 out of 17 eggs

Trisha

 

[Tailfeathers]

Trisha, I love the color of the legs on those cockerels!

I have to tell ya that I'm envious of your knowledge of genetics. When you start talking "co" this and "Pg" that, I'm totally lost. I know what you're talking about but haven't memorized it. I really wish I had the time to devote more of my mental capacity (which isn't much to begin with) to all this chicken stuff. Right now I'm just trying to stay afloat but hopefully the business will pick up soon.

I did want to ask, are you trying to get a solid bread or a laced breast on your males?

God Bless,

 

[bumpershoot]

Trisha might be, she has really pretty birds. I have 17 of her eggs in my incubator right now! To bad you are not closer to TX, I have 8 weeks old males and females I am trying to find homes for prior to my set of Trisha's hatching. They don't seem to be real popular down here in TX.

Too bad you're not in NM! I'd love to buy some Barnies. Hatching eggs here is very difficult because of the altitude. I would LOVE some started birds.

 

[tls_ranch]

Trisha, I love the color of the legs on those cockerels!

I have to tell ya that I'm envious of your knowledge of genetics. When you start talking "co" this and "Pg" that, I'm totally lost. I know what you're talking about but haven't memorized it. I really wish I had the time to devote more of my mental capacity (which isn't much to begin with) to all this chicken stuff. Right now I'm just trying to stay afloat but hopefully the business will pick up soon.

I did want to ask, are you trying to get a solid bread or a laced breast on your males?

God Bless,

Royce,
I've been learning more and more about genetics because of the project colors I've been working with and other colors I've been wanting to try. It's helpful to learn how the genetics interact and such or otherwise one would have to just guess the result of out crossing

Barnevelders should be:
ebeb (brown based)
Pg/Pg (Concentric pencilled patterned)
Ml/Ml (Melanotic, thick lacing)
plus other possible modifiers and melanizers

If you add Co= columbian...you get single laced as in laced wyandottes and the laced breasts in males. So Co is one of the things you have to breed out to get a good double laced pattern.

There's some debate, but I read that both Co and co (no columbian) has been found in Andalusian blue birds with the darker edge or "lacing" on their feathers. So, Co may not be present, but something else can cause the laced look. I'm leaning toward melanizers or other modifiers...something Barnevelders have a lot of and not all of these have been studied or named.

Now that I rambled on so long

to answer your question... I haven't decided yet whether I'm breeding for "solid" blue or more of a "laced" look on my blue males. I kind of prefer the laced look. Not wyandotte type laced with gold and black/ blue lacing on male's breast, but the slightly darker blue edge on solid blue breasted birds. Similar to the lacing you see on solid blue orps and other blue breeds. I'm still going to try and track down the UK standard and see what they say.



Trisha

 

[Buckhunter76]

There's a lot to remember

 

[pinkchick]

OMGosh!!!!!!!!! Beautiful bird and chick overload going on here in this thread the last few days!!!!!! I'm drooling over them! I love love them all.

Aren't Barnies the greatest ever????

 

[Helen in the Desert]

Love all the genetic info, though I am still on a pretty steap learning curve here. It helps TONS.

At what age and what do you look for when you start culling out chicks for color? And at what age can you tell the sex of the chicks? These are the hatchery chicks from Cackle.
My chicks will be 6 weeks old on Tuesdayish.I have some that seem to be getting black breasted and others that arent, but the combs don't match up to the color - small combes on black breasted ones, large combs on color breasted ones, etc. Some seem to have nice lacing coming in and some have brown blead that goes out to the edge on the center of the feather.
Any tips?

 

[Tailfeathers]

Royce,
I've been learning more and more about genetics because of the project colors I've been working with and other colors I've been wanting to try. It's helpful to learn how the genetics interact and such or otherwise one would have to just guess the result of out crossing

Barnevelders should be:
ebeb (brown based)
Pg/Pg (Concentric pencilled patterned)
Ml/Ml (Melanotic, thick lacing)
plus other possible modifiers and melanizers

If you add Co= columbian...you get single laced as in laced wyandottes and the laced breasts in males. So Co is one of the things you have to breed out to get a good double laced pattern.

There's some debate, but I read that both Co and co (no columbian) has been found in Andalusian blue birds with the darker edge or "lacing" on their feathers. So, Co may not be present, but something else can cause the laced look. I'm leaning toward melanizers or other modifiers...something Barnevelders have a lot of and not all of these have been studied or named.

Now that I rambled on so long

to answer your question... I haven't decided yet whether I'm breeding for "solid" blue or more of a "laced" look on my blue males. I kind of prefer the laced look. Not wyandotte type laced with gold and black/ blue lacing on male's breast, but the slightly darker blue edge on solid blue breasted birds. Similar to the lacing you see on solid blue orps and other blue breeds. I'm still going to try and track down the UK standard and see what they say.



Trisha

Thanks Trisha. That's a lot of good info. Now I only wish I could remember all that and knew how get that. Just last night I read an article about the Mendelian Foundational Principals of genetics and while he covered only the very basics, I still found myself having to read it 2-3x just to understand it. And that don't mean I'll remember any of it tomorrow!

I'm trying to move my Standard Barnie males toward the SOP and get more lacing in the breasts. The SOP reads, "BREAST: Each feather reddish brown with a sharply defined lacing of lustrous, greenish black." I have yet to see any Barnies in the USA that has that. So any ideas on how I can get there without cross breeding? My thought right now is just to start picking the males that have the most reddish brown in their breast feathers but I'm also wondering what would happen if I cross a Barnie male with a Welsummer female?

The males I have now and have had in the past are as you mentioned above - "solid blue". What I want is the same feathers on the breast as you often see on the shoulders and back.

God Bless,

 

[gavinandallison]

So, I am fairly new to the breed but here are some pictures of my birds.

















I would appreciate constructive comments.....