Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[CarolynF]

Thanks, on the egg eater problem. All good ideas. Also I am going to separate her from the rooster. He might be the culprit. Darkening the nesting area and fake eggs will be the first attack. Then eggs with nasty stuff if the first three don't work. Aya

When my friend thought she had an egg eater, it turned out to be a rat getting in. Is that a possibility?

 

[RachaelS]

Okay sent her a text, I asked if they are light brown or dark brown, she said dark brown.

Oh... that seals the deal, I really want these!!! Now I just have to figure out how to get them. Hey Royce, Andy ------ do you guys have any Barred Rock hens?????
It was fun hatching them, knowing as soon as they were born what were boys and what were girls. Of course next breeding won't hold true LOL! It was a good hatch also, I only set 8 eggs, had 100% hatch rate, 5 girls and 3 Boys. The father was a REAL mean guy (not from Trisha or anyone here on BYC) I was very worried he would pass that on to his son. It seemed for a while he did and was about to get rid of the son, then something happened and he just calmed down, my daughter can even be around him and she is scared of Roosters, because of his father, but likes him

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[tls_ranch]

Quote: It was fun hatching them, knowing as soon as they were born what were boys and what were girls. Of course next breeding won't hold true LOL! It was a good hatch also, I only set 8 eggs, had 100% hatch rate, 5 girls and 3 Boys. The father was a REAL mean guy (not from Trisha or anyone here on BYC) I was very worried he would pass that on to his son. It seemed for a while he did and was about to get rid of the son, then something happened and he just calmed down, my daughter can even be around him and she is scared of Roosters, because of his father, but likes him

.
Yep, it is not worth it to have a mean roo especially when you have young kids. My DD (age 4 going on 5) was down feeding the chickens treats about a week ago. She had 11 roos and cockerels at her feet with no aggression from any of them. I still won't fully trust any breeding male around kids. They aren't thinking with their brains.

I'm now down to 6 roos/cockerels finally in my flock. The girls are going to be much happier without so many boys chasing them around. I butchered one extra cockerel this morning...the house smells delicious because I'm cooking chicken soup. Gotta make some bread to go with the soup now. I also have one more to process tomorrow and he's penned up for now.

Trisha

 

[RachaelS]

Quote:
Nope, I thought I could "train" him, but I think we made to many mistakes in the beginning and it was just NOT worth it.

Trisha, You are making me HUNGRY

I really need to learn how to butcher my excess Roos, I just give them away.... I will get there at some point.

 

[tls_ranch]

Quote: Nope, I thought I could "train" him, but I think we made to many mistakes in the beginning and it was just NOT worth it.

Trisha, You are making me HUNGRY

I really need to learn how to butcher my excess Roos, I just give them away.... I will get there at some point.
I had a lady that bought all my excess cockerels. But, now that feed and gas are so expensive.. she doesn't even want to pay $2 bucks for them. That is not even worth the gas to meet her in town. So, I sucked it up and started butchering them myself. Homegrown chicken does taste better than store bought The chicken soup turns out the best as most of the ones I've processed are already "older". The flavor of the soup stock is amazing.

I skin rather than pluck because it is much easier to do quickly without having to set up a pot of hot water. I did have to overcome a bit of the "ick factor" during butchering. But if, my Grandmas, Great Grandmas all had to do it then so can I Also I know these cockerels had a great life compared with "factory chickens" and will not go to waste.

It's funny when you talk to other people about butchering your own birds. Some get a little shocked. Many people have become so ignorant about where their food comes from whether it's grain, fruit, veggies, eggs or meat products.

Trisha

 

[RachaelS]

Quote:
I think skinning is the way to start! I know even my kids are ignorant about where their food comes from, would like to teach them. Started with eggs, just need to get the garden going and butcher my first chicken.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Nice, Very nice.

 

[elizmartin]

I had a lady that bought all my excess cockerels. But, now that feed and gas are so expensive.. she doesn't even want to pay $2 bucks for them. That is not even worth the gas to meet her in town. So, I sucked it up and started butchering them myself. Homegrown chicken does taste better than store bought The chicken soup turns out the best as most of the ones I've processed are already "older". The flavor of the soup stock is amazing.

I skin rather than pluck because it is much easier to do quickly without having to set up a pot of hot water. I did have to overcome a bit of the "ick factor" during butchering. But if, my Grandmas, Great Grandmas all had to do it then so can I Also I know these cockerels had a great life compared with "factory chickens" and will not go to waste.

It's funny when you talk to other people about butchering your own birds. Some get a little shocked. Many people have become so ignorant about where their food comes from whether it's grain, fruit, veggies, eggs or meat products.

Trisha

I often think its also that folks begin to think of them as pets and children making that transition harder.....I try to treat all with respect but when you choose to breed there are some that have to go......I have processes birds and think i may try skinning next time but am still looking for a successful humane way of dispatching them....Ive tried several ways but have not been very good........Trisha, how do you do it?????

thanks for the pics of your birds, they are really lovely especially the hens.....beautiful clearity of feathers......Will the blue cocks eventually have breast lacing....

eliz

 

[tls_ranch]

Quote: Eliz,
I pmed you about the butchering. The breast lacing in males is a complex issue.

My blue roos don't have much breast lacing, because my barnie roos don't have much breast lacing. I'm going to continue breeding more to the Dutch standard which calls for more solid breasts in males. I did add more Johan blood to my flock this year. Johan males tend to have more breast lacing. This may eventually add a little bit more lacing to the roos, but I think to much will lead to messier lacing on the hens. I can see this in the pullets that are full sisters to the cockerels with the more breast lacing. The pullets' lacing is already not as clear as the pullets from my original roos with solid black breasts.

I've been reading quite a bit about how the old time breeders (1920's) in the UK decided to split Barnevelders into two groups partridge and double-laced. At the same time they decided to change the standard to have laced breasts in males. (in the hopes of improving lacing in females).

The British split the barnies in to two groups so that they could still utilize their "partridge" birds which were not up to Dutch standards for lacing. At the same time they decided that the males of the double laced should have laced breasts in order to set them apart from the partridge males in shows. If I'm reading the info right, the original Dutch standard for double laced called for solid black breasts in the males. At the time Dutch only accepted the double laced pattern and solid black varieties.

Back in 1920-1930s there wasn't detailed genetics info on how genes work. Today, the understanding of genetics of the double laced pattern shows that laced breasts in males can result in poorly laced females. The lacing in the breast is either caused by lack of melanizers or a copy of Columbian. The lack of melanizers can result in shafting or incomplete inner lacing (peppering) on the female. A copy of columbian will also result in incomplete lacing.

The Dutch have debated this issue in depth and decided that males should have soild or near solid black breasts in order to produce the best lacing on females. Dr Bjorn Netland was kind enough to send me some info and pictures from the Dutch barnevelder club about this issue.

There is also an confusing issue with the APA and the Barnevelder standard. The APA accepted Barnevelders as partridge rather than double laced (like Dark Cornish). If Barnevelders were accepted truely as "partridge" then based on the British standard the males should have black breasts and females stippled not laced. But the APA accepted Barnevelders as "Partridge" and requires males to have laced breasts (British double-laced standard) and females to be double-laced. It's kind of a mix of both standards if you consider the way it is written.

In my humble opinion..not that it means much LOL....Genetically, in order to get perfect lacing on females and truely laced breasts in males would require double mating or pullet/cock breeding to get show birds that meet the APA standard and the British standard.


Trisha

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Trishia,
The Barnevelder males in the British, Dutch, and OUR (APA) standard should NOT have lacing in the breast. This was a hotly debated topic in the Dutch club, but one of their top breeders (I cannot recall his name -- maybe it was Mr. Osram) proved that males with totally black breasts could be mated to nicely laced females to produce sound offspring, both male and female. Again, the double laced variety we have in the APA standard does not call for a male with breast lacing. (Some of the European standards, such as Germany, Denmark, France, and others may accept or require males with breast lacing, but I hope we don't go down that route.) Birds hatched out of eggs from the Netherlands we received around 20 years ago never produced a single male with breast lacing, whereas some of the (German origin) bantam Barnevelder males I imported from Canada showed breast lacing in the males. In my opinion, it is of pivotal importance that breeders here in the US agree on this issue NOW because the breed is still a relative novelty in the APA and confusion at this point would not help the breed (let alone the judges). Another thing to look out for is the body shape (I have seen some birds that leave a great deal to be desired in this respect -- pictures of US breeders' birds I have seen), which I think is just as important as the lacing issue. Accepting the breed as "partridge" in the APA was idiotic, but it may be due to Mr. Grezcmiehl's limited language skills (a German immigrant to Canada, he was very instrumental in having the breed accepted by the APA; passed away a few years ago) and could be easily remedied by petitioning for a change in the standard description.