Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[tls_ranch]

I got about 50 barnevelders, various ages from 2 weeks to 2 months old. I have a 12x18 horse stall that I converted to a chicken coop in my barn. I have one end heated, 7 gallon waterer. Was giving medicated chick starter but they were skinny so switched to 24% starter/grower and added chick grit and spread 13 way scratch in the pine shavings to give them something to do. I have treated with corid for 7 days when they began dropping dead. Then treated with oxine when they started just sitting all hunched up not moving when the weather got cooler.
I fogged with the oxine. Then added 3 cc per gallon to water. There were silkie hens with chicks and a few Sumatra and Phoenix pullets in the coop already when I put these guys in there. None of those chicks various breeds and their foster silkie mothers or the pullets have shown any symptoms. But I'm losing at least 1 Barnevelder a day. Am I doing something wrong or are these little guys just sickly and I can't save them?

It still sounds like cocci and once they show symptoms it is hard to stop it. I would switch them back to medicated chick feed and continue to dose with corid. Also strip the coop completely bare and bed with clean bedding. You probably will have to switch out the infected bedding several times. Keep the coop really clean so they don't consume more cocci from their infected droppings.. They will be shedding large numbers of the cocci organism in their poop until the meds start working again. Don't give added vitamins as it will interfere with the action of he cocci preventative. Keep the medicated food and water close to them near the heat source. They probably won't want to move far to eat or drink if they are feeling bad and all huddled up.

Trisha

 

[Elaine Elder]

Thanks.
Tried all that. Corid for 5 days already.
Trying a solution proposed by another member

Sulpha....something with meth in middle and oxine at end

 

[RachaelS]

Elaine,

So sorry you are going through this. How are they acting before they die? Any twitching? Lethargic? Do you have any apple cider vinegar? Did you quarantine the Barnies prior to introducing to the group? Is it possible the mama hens are killing them? That is a lot of birds in that space, they could be territorially.

 

[Sterkfarm]

I'm with sulfa. All the amprolium and med starter had never done a thing for me. I keep it on hand at ALL times and use it at the sign of fluffing and huddling. All the other advice is valid too, it's just what works for me. I always check for water balloony crops. If they feel really squishy, I bust out the sulfa. It saves lives.
I have cox outbreaks from time to time when I have larger batches of chicks, so it's a proven treatment for me. I'm Canadian so we might all be talking about the same med here, not sure. I always use the drug name rather than the product name so I can keep it all straight in my head
I think sulmet is the same though. My stuff is sulfametha*something-or-other*. It's a liquid from my vet. And good luck. These are always minute by minute situations

 

[Elaine Elder]

Sulmet is a brand name for a treatment for coccidiosis. I found Corid to be a better treatment.

Apparently I'm dealing with a new infection in poultry.

This is what has been recommended by a member on this forum.


Oxine approx $ 35 Gallon with shipping included. RevivalAnimal.com

Probiotic $ 19.95 per pound. Sulfadimethoxine $15 per packet that makes 50 gallons

Mix 1 packet in 1 gallon of water. Use 1 tablespoon mixture per gallon of drinking water. 1 tablespoon = 15cc.

Sulfadimethoxine use 1 Tablespoon (15 cc/ml) per gallon of water for 5 days.


Concerning the hens... If you have ever had silkies, you know how broody they are.
I have at least 10 hens that will be so broody they will sit on rocks. The 3 hens that I put with these guys are notorious chick hoarders. If it peeps, they will adopt it. I call one Mother Hubbard. They took every chick that wanted taken. There is even a roo with little Barnevelder heads poking out of his wings. There is a heater in the end. But the little ones have been adopted by 3 silkie hens and a roo. I've watched them for hours. Looking for symptoms. The mamas don't let the bigger ones pick on the little ones.
 
The symptoms include sitting in one spot while the rest run around and act like chickens. Their head is down close to the body or tucked under a wing. I can just reach down and pick it up. They are slow to open their eyes. The main eyelid opens first and a half second later, the inner eyelid opens and it realizes it's being held. There is a slight sense of fright but it's like it's just too tired to bother struggling. Then they just die. No runny nose. No glassy eyes. Nothing odd about them until they just stop moving. I have a few blue laced in the bunch. They are few enough for me to keep track of. They are fine one day. Sluggish the next. Dead the next.

I have had contact with several people experiencing the same thing. So I'm not alone. I just don't know where it came from. I also don't know why the silkies seem to be immune to it. And the chicks they had with them were all easter eggers or mutts. They have not been affected. The barn has horse stalls I split and converted to chicken coops. None of the other chickens inside the barn have been affected.
so it appears my existing birds were exposed during the summer. And are okay. I had a shipment from cackle hatchery arrive with half dead on arrival in early summer. The rest were sickly and had these symptoms. I lost almost all of that shipment over the next two weeks. But they were never inside the barn. Even the few survivors of that batch are not inside the barn. By the time I got these birds. I had totally cleaned out the barn and had used straight bleach on all the inside coops after pressure washing the entire inside of the barn. The floor is concrete. According to cackle hatchery, the dead chicks were the fault of the post office.

Thanks for all your replies.

 

[RachaelS]

Sulmet is a brand name for a treatment for coccidiosis. I found Corid to be a better treatment.

Apparently I'm dealing with a new infection in poultry.

This is what has been recommended by a member on this forum.


Oxine approx $ 35 Gallon with shipping included. RevivalAnimal.com

Probiotic $ 19.95 per pound. Sulfadimethoxine $15 per packet that makes 50 gallons

Mix 1 packet in 1 gallon of water. Use 1 tablespoon mixture per gallon of drinking water. 1 tablespoon = 15cc.

Sulfadimethoxine use 1 Tablespoon (15 cc/ml) per gallon of water for 5 days.

So happy you may have found a treatment. Do you mind keeping us posted in case someone else here comes across something similar? I wish you the BEST of luck

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Sulmet is a brand name for a treatment for coccidiosis. I found Corid to be a better treatment.

Apparently I'm dealing with a new infection in poultry.

This is what has been recommended by a member on this forum.


Oxine approx $ 35 Gallon with shipping included. RevivalAnimal.com

Probiotic $ 19.95 per pound. Sulfadimethoxine $15 per packet that makes 50 gallons

Mix 1 packet in 1 gallon of water. Use 1 tablespoon mixture per gallon of drinking water. 1 tablespoon = 15cc.

Sulfadimethoxine use 1 Tablespoon (15 cc/ml) per gallon of water for 5 days.


Concerning the hens... If you have ever had silkies, you know how broody they are.
I have at least 10 hens that will be so broody they will sit on rocks. The 3 hens that I put with these guys are notorious chick hoarders. If it peeps, they will adopt it. I call one Mother Hubbard. They took every chick that wanted taken. There is even a roo with little Barnevelder heads poking out of his wings. There is a heater in the end. But the little ones have been adopted by 3 silkie hens and a roo. I've watched them for hours. Looking for symptoms. The mamas don't let the bigger ones pick on the little ones.

The symptoms include sitting in one spot while the rest run around and act like chickens. Their head is down close to the body or tucked under a wing. I can just reach down and pick it up. They are slow to open their eyes. The main eyelid opens first and a half second later, the inner eyelid opens and it realizes it's being held. There is a slight sense of fright but it's like it's just too tired to bother struggling. Then they just die. No runny nose. No glassy eyes. Nothing odd about them until they just stop moving. I have a few blue laced in the bunch. They are few enough for me to keep track of. They are fine one day. Sluggish the next. Dead the next.

I have had contact with several people experiencing the same thing. So I'm not alone. I just don't know where it came from. I also don't know why the silkies seem to be immune to it. And the chicks they had with them were all easter eggers or mutts. They have not been affected. The barn has horse stalls I split and converted to chicken coops. None of the other chickens inside the barn have been affected.
so it appears my existing birds were exposed during the summer. And are okay. I had a shipment from cackle hatchery arrive with half dead on arrival in early summer. The rest were sickly and had these symptoms. I lost almost all of that shipment over the next two weeks. But they were never inside the barn. Even the few survivors of that batch are not inside the barn. By the time I got these birds. I had totally cleaned out the barn and had used straight bleach on all the inside coops after pressure washing the entire inside of the barn. The floor is concrete. According to cackle hatchery, the dead chicks were the fault of the post office.

Thanks for all your replies.

Marek's Disease manifests itself pretty early on, and then continues past the point of lay. Barnevelders are especially susceptible to Marek's. My first experience was when I lost about 50 (my very first batch) to Marek's, and not a single one survived. Only the Single Comb White Leghorns had comparable mortality, and not a single one of the Norwegian Jaers caught it. First I was told I had fed them incorrectly, which I did not buy. I put some birds in for a post mortem (along with a couple of sick ones) at the Washington State University extension in Puyallup in Western Washington. As I already had read some Dutch literature about their susceptibility to Marek's, I specifically asked them (Dr Dhillon, I believe) to test for Marek's. The report I received did not even mention Marek's. When I call the extension service to inquire about it, I was told that "I'm the vet here, and I decide what we do" or something of that nature. When I acquired the vaccine and set another smaller batch, I lost only a couple out of about a dozen or so. So much for that. I suspect you are dealing with Marek's, but---then again---I am not the vet here. Hope you get a proper diagnosis, though. Good luck.

 

[DiamondDust]

I second the idea that it could be Marek's. I dealt with Marek's with my first batch of Hamburgs I had years ago. I lost nearly all of them and it manifested very early. I had the next batch vaccinated and lost only one. I'm pleased that my current flock of Barnevelders do not seem to have any problems with Marek's and I am hoping I have some that are a bit resistant to it since I know it can be a problem in the breed.

 

[Elaine Elder]

I had no dead chickens today.!!!..
I am using the treatment I described with a couple additions.
I am giving any really sluggish birds a 1 cc dose of the sulfa med undiluted. Then...
I am using vetRx as per directions, massage into eyes and over beak and head feathers and put a couple drops into the inside of mouth into the v shape in the top beak.
The first I did this to was almost comatose. Little bitty guy. I don't know if it helped immediately or if I just annoyed him into perking up enough to get away from me. I treated 2 others and managed to keep hold of them long enough to put into a cage, where I put 15 cc of the sulpha...med into a quart of water. Instead of 15 cc per gallon. I fully expected them to be dead this morning. But they are eating and drinking and are not all hunched up.
I treated 3 more today and by the end of the day they were eating and acting more normal.
Something else I noticed. Their feet were cold. After i treated the sicker ones this morning, I caught a couple of normal acting ones and checked. Their feet were the same temp as their body. I even caught the puny little guy I had treated first. His feet were same as body temp. I could tell it was him because his head was still covered in the vetRx. It's oily so his head was slicked back like a rock n roll star of the 50's. He was pretty spry. Even with a net he was hard to catch.
I'm keeping the sickest ones in cages outside the rest of the coops. With heat lamp. I had some barred rock chicks in an out door coop. They are about 6 weeks old. It just turned cool here a couple weeks ago and I think the hen was not being attentive to the chicks so they were cuddled up with a silkie roo and she had stopped clucking. They all looked miserable. All hunched up. It may be the sudden drop in temp and the hen deciding today was the day they were grown. But I decided to treat them quick. With the 1 cc straight med followed by the vetRx they were fine in an hour.

From what I've read about mareks, there is no cure.
I think I might have an antibiotic resistant infection.
Because I think it is responding to this treatment, especially if I get really aggressive with treatment. 4 more days of antibiotic. I think the vetRx is like vapor rub for us. It certainly perks them up. Maybe it's a catalyst for the sulpha...antibiotic. speeds it up. Or maybe they need that initial dose of 1 cc in their system quick. Or maybe it's all of the above.

I'll post back after the full 6 days of treatment.

Thanks
Elaine

 

[tls_ranch]

I had no dead chickens today.!!!..
I am using the treatment I described with a couple additions.
I am giving any really sluggish birds a 1 cc dose of the sulfa med undiluted. Then...
I am using vetRx as per directions, massage into eyes and over beak and head feathers and put a couple drops into the inside of mouth into the v shape in the top beak.
The first I did this to was almost comatose. Little bitty guy. I don't know if it helped immediately or if I just annoyed him into perking up enough to get away from me. I treated 2 others and managed to keep hold of them long enough to put into a cage, where I put 15 cc of the sulpha...med into a quart of water. Instead of 15 cc per gallon. I fully expected them to be dead this morning. But they are eating and drinking and are not all hunched up.
I treated 3 more today and by the end of the day they were eating and acting more normal.
Something else I noticed. Their feet were cold. After i treated the sicker ones this morning, I caught a couple of normal acting ones and checked. Their feet were the same temp as their body. I even caught the puny little guy I had treated first. His feet were same as body temp. I could tell it was him because his head was still covered in the vetRx. It's oily so his head was slicked back like a rock n roll star of the 50's. He was pretty spry. Even with a net he was hard to catch.
I'm keeping the sickest ones in cages outside the rest of the coops. With heat lamp. I had some barred rock chicks in an out door coop. They are about 6 weeks old. It just turned cool here a couple weeks ago and I think the hen was not being attentive to the chicks so they were cuddled up with a silkie roo and she had stopped clucking. They all looked miserable. All hunched up. It may be the sudden drop in temp and the hen deciding today was the day they were grown. But I decided to treat them quick. With the 1 cc straight med followed by the vetRx they were fine in an hour.

From what I've read about mareks, there is no cure.
I think I might have an antibiotic resistant infection.
Because I think it is responding to this treatment, especially if I get really aggressive with treatment. 4 more days of antibiotic. I think the vetRx is like vapor rub for us. It certainly perks them up. Maybe it's a catalyst for the sulpha...antibiotic. speeds it up. Or maybe they need that initial dose of 1 cc in their system quick. Or maybe it's all of the above.

I'll post back after the full 6 days of treatment.

Thanks
Elaine

That's good news I don't think the youngest chicks are dying of mareks. Mareks symptoms usually start after 4 to 12 weeks from exposure to the virus. So, the 2 week olds shouldnt be dying of mareks. I still think it sounds like you had a bad case of cocci possibly combined with a secondary bacterial infection. Little chicks can succumb to that very quickly. I rarely have problems with broody raised chicks that free range. But, if in a brooder you have to make sure the cocci doesn't take hold. Exposure to small amounts the organism is important to build immunity, but the goal is to prevent it from overwhelming their little bodies. There are many strains of cocci and some can be quite nasty. If you loose more, maybe you can send some off to be tested.

Edited to add: You may also be able to have a vet check samples of their droppings if you suspect cocci. The cost is usually pretty low and you can also test for worms that way. Young birds can get worms as early as 2-4 weeks.

Trisha