Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[Helen in the Desert]

From what I know, the green beetle sheen is something they are supposed to have.
As for roo's, I lost two in the heat, but i don't get real cold out where I am so I don't know.

 

[flocknfoal]

I need some opinions. My little barnie chicks are 4 weeks old now and it seems like I should be able to tell for sure which are boys and which are the girls. Some of them I feel fairly sure at that point.

I feel fairly confident these are boys - larger crests, getting waddles, wider legs, etc.:



And I'm pretty sure these are girls



But what do you think about these two?

 

[loveourbirds]

i think green band is a rooster and white legband is a hen. but im not the greatest guesser.

 

[flocknfoal]

That was my guess too, but I'm a newbie. Their coloring seems to be coming in nicely (in my very inexperienced opinion). It's going to be really hard to figure out which roo to keep.

My understanding is that two roos in the same pen would fight. True? So, for those that have breeding programs, do you keep just one roo per coop/pen and keep a couple of hens with each?

I've read a lot about culling for the best type and coloring, but once you've selected the ones you want to keep and breed, how do you decide which hens to breed with which roos?

I think I got the below color breeding from a wyandotte thread, but do the color results hold true for barnies too? I usually only see blue and black. Are splash less desirable?

Blue X Blue = 50% Blue . 25% Black , 25% Splash
Blue X Splash = 50% Blue , 50% Splash
Blue X Black = 50% Blue, 50% Black
Splash X Black = 100% Blue
Black X Black = 100% Black
Splash X Splash = 100% Splash

Thanks for any advice and help!

 

[loveourbirds]

breeding methods vary from one breeder to another. they typically breed a pen of 1 rooster over 2-4 hens. they will usually have a "cockerel line" and a "pullet line".

I hope someone will correct me if im wrong, as I haven't been able to get my barnevelders going well.

typically you would pick your very best rooster, and put him over more coarsely colored hens. pay attention on the hens especially in the breast area for odd colors that could throw his colors off. this is your cockerel line.

for your pullet line; you would select 4 of your nicest hens, preferably sisters and breed to a show quality cockerel. if not show quality he needs to be of very good type for the breed.

always breed for type first, color second.

most people who show and breed successfully, raise 25-50 birds to choose one.

this is just a loose breeding plan that I would follow unless I got better advice.

 

[mountainvieworchards]

These are good questions about breeding and pairing and of course we all have our own ways of doing things. I will share some of mine and the rationale for why I do it this way. I understand others have ways that work for them so take this for what its worth and if it sounds like something you could try or adapt to fit your way of doing things.

First of all, with my Barnevelders I do not use double mating (i.e. separate cockeral and pullet lines) Most of us I think are trying to avoid having to do this with Barnevelders, which should be able to be nicely single mated. Honestly though until we get the breast color of the cocks sorted out and agreed upon it is up for debate. Currently the standard calls for lacing on male breasts but most of the US stock has black breast, and we have discussed this in the past, and it keeps coming up. I favor changing the standard to have males with black breasts and allowing for some flecks on the breast since that is what I get from single mating system. And if the standard is not changed I will keep on doing single matings anyway since I think the real beauty of the Double Laced Barnevelder is in the hen, and conveniently to my eye the roosters look better in solid black breast.

So instead of having separate cockerel and pullet lines I keep several matrilineal lines and use these to organize my breeding. Each pen is from a female line and I pick my best roosters in best type and those hatched from dark eggs to rotate into these pens. I do use line breeding to some extent and breed cockerels back to mothers and grandmothers. That is how I keep my Johan line going. This way I am picking roosters that are sons of my best females. This way you are selecting them based on both genetics (genotype) and also on the way they look (phenotype). This method will bring your quality up fast, and it gives organization to the breeding and help you plan.

In pairing birds and deciding who to use in breeding it depends on what your needs and goals are. And this is sort of dictated by what you have on hand. It will change over time if you are having success. For example If you need to improve leg color then choose a cock with nice yellow legs. If you are trying to improve your back length or tail angle choose a bird that has a strengths there. If you are trying to increase your percentages of day old sexing then you have to dial back to day one when the chicks hatched and refer to your notes. If you want to improve egg color you should be choosing a rooster that hatched from a dark egg. This is where it helps to have a lot to choose from.

We often say type is the first thing to breed to and color second. I think we are all capable of paying attention to more than one detail. Honestly I think you will make more progress in your breeding and faster if you pay attention to all traits. You don't want to toss out your best laced hen because her type is not the best, I would rather keep more birds in the breeding program and do more culling. It is hard to get something back once it is lost. There is huge demand for layer quality Barnevelder pullets, and I easily get $30 a piece for young pullets from people with big smiles on their faces. Plus isn't hatching loads of chicks fun? Barnevelder cockerels are excellent meat birds for a small frier and we eat plenty of them at our house.

I am interested in hearing others methods and ideas about this.

Andy


As far as managing the boys... At around 9 to 12 weeks I pull the cockerels out of the grower pen and move them into a Bachelor pad. I keep my cockerels together in a pen with an older rooster, (introduce them when the cockerels are still immature before 12 weeks and the old guy will not kill them and will help keep order). They will have minor squabbles with each other but no one gets hurt. At breeding season I only run one rooster at a time with hens in the pen to prevent fighting. I have had some roos that could handle the competition but with others I have had some pretty bloody fights even from the otherwise docile Barnevelders, and they are too valuable to me to take the chance. They are not put together with other males again after this point so you need lots of pens and places to put them when they are not breeding.

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Oh a couple more things. The blue breeding works the same for all chickens, they are only breeds in our minds. If you are getting your chicks from a blue and black breeding you will not get any splash so perhaps that is what is going on in your case.

As far as sexing day olds, I band all my chicks by breeding line and then I also make a guess at hatch as to the sex. I put band on right leg if I think boy, and on the left leg if I think girl. I make a guess whether I am feeling confident or not. Then as they get older you can see how well you did at guessing. My theory is that if I keep the ones for breeding that I guessed correctly, then I will be breeding toward an autosexing line. It is too early to say whether this is working but its a way to keep track of what your first impression was of the chick to measure against what it truly is. If you see a 6 week pullet with band on her right leg that is one you guessed wrong and you can remove her from the breeding line if you choose. .

Andy

 

[pysankigirl]

Oh a couple more things. The blue breeding works the same for all chickens, they are only breeds in our minds. If you are getting your chicks from a blue and black breeding you will not get any splash so perhaps that is what is going on in your case.

As far as sexing day olds, I band all my chicks by breeding line and then I also make a guess at hatch as to the sex. I put band on right leg if I think boy, and on the left leg if I think girl. I make a guess whether I am feeling confident or not. Then as they get older you can see how well you did at guessing. My theory is that if I keep the ones for breeding that I guessed correctly, then I will be breeding toward an autosexing line. It is too early to say whether this is working but its a way to keep track of what your first impression was of the chick to measure against what it truly is. If you see a 6 week pullet with band on her right leg that is one you guessed wrong and you can remove her from the breeding line if you choose. .

Andy

at what age are you guessing? day old?

 

[loveourbirds]

I have read the book on sexing chicks, and I have found my eyes aren't good enough to be efficient at it. here is a method I follow on day olds that works pretty well for me. on 10 chicks take the 4 with the smallest diameter legs and toes, these are normally pullets. then pick the 4 with the largest diameter or the cockerels. the other 2 I call straight run and grow them until I can verify what their sex is. doing it this way, we typically get it right 90-95% of the time.

 

[tls_ranch]

I have read the book on sexing chicks, and I have found my eyes aren't good enough to be efficient at it. here is a method I follow on day olds that works pretty well for me. on 10 chicks take the 4 with the smallest diameter legs and toes, these are normally pullets. then pick the 4 with the largest diameter or the cockerels. the other 2 I call straight run and grow them until I can verify what their sex is. doing it this way, we typically get it right 90-95% of the time.

Andy has offered some good advice all around in breeding barnevelders. There are many ways of setting up breeding pens too, so each person will have to find what works for their "set up" and goals. Some breeders will have the space to single mate, some will flock mate, line breed, rotational or spiral breed etc, etc.

Sexing Barnevelders can be done by breast down color as day-olds. It is not 100%, but I agree with Andy that if you select for that trait...the % of accuracy will most likely improve. Splashes are almost impossible to sex by breast down...they are just too light LOL.

Trisha