Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[tls_ranch]

okay so please pardon my ignorance, but why are the two chicks behind them "obviously" male?

I am going to pick up my new barnevelder chicks next weekend, and if ther is a way to tell, I'd love to know it.

the splash chicks are cute...what are you hoping they will grow into...blue laced? (I am coming into this conversation late, obviously)

The two chicks behind the splash chicks have bright white breast down and that usually means they are male. Pullets tend to have darker breasts with either less white or even tan/grey breast down. It's not a 100% with all lines but at least it can give you a good guess on very young chicks.

The splash chicks should feather out to be "white and red" double laced. They should look a lot like splash laced wyandottes, but be double laced. The "white" is the result of the double dose of the Blue diluter gene. In the splash chicks the areas of black are now diluted to white. One copy of the blue gene = black diluted to blue.

Trisha

 

[RachaelS]

Trisha,
They are soooooooo cute

 

[tls_ranch]

Quote: LOL, I would be lost if the standard for weights and measures switched suddenly and completely to the "new" system. I grew up with cups/ tablespoons, gallons, pounds, and feet/miles. I still have trouble converting back and forth. For me it's like learning a second language...it's still not my "native" language. I don't "think" in kilometers etc.....

Call me old fashioned

I don't mean to start an all out "revolt" on APA standards. But, I will keep trying to breed my Barnevelders to the dutch standard for Barnevelders seeing as they are a Dutch breed. Everyone has the right to breed the way they want too. Variety keeps life interesting in that way.

I was talking to another breeder about how individual lines eventually can develop into something different even in small ways. Let say in 20 years...my California bred Barnevelders might become more heat tolerant rather than the original cold tolerant Dutch imports. That said, breed standards are important because it can give us a point of focus to work towards. Maybe the APA standard will be changed to reflect the Dutch standard someday.

Trisha

 

[Totalcolour]

LOL, I would be lost if the standard for weights and measures switched suddenly...it's still not my "native" language. I don't "think" in kilometers etc.....

Call me old fashioned

I don't mean to start an all out "revolt" on APA standards. But, I will keep trying to breed my Barnevelders to the dutch standard for Barnevelders seeing as they are a Dutch breed. Everyone has the right to breed the way they want too. Variety keeps life interesting in that way.

I was talking to another breeder about how individual lines eventually can develop into something different even in small ways. Let say in 20 years...my California bred Barnevelders might become more heat tolerant rather than the original cold tolerant Dutch imports. That said, breed standards are important because it can give us a point of focus to work towards. Maybe the APA standard will be changed to reflect the Dutch standard someday.

Trisha

Oooh, I hope I wasn't misunderstood. I think we should stick to the Dutch standard too, since they are a Dutch breed.

But yes you are right, individual lines would change, and in not so many generations. If you were to pick only heat tolerant birds, you could breed them and in five years you could have a heat tolerant line.

Because I live in a (spradic) cold area, I like small combed birds so they don't suffer from frostbite. So I would probably choose birds that are tolerant, OR have small combs.

I hope we do go to the Dutch standard. Why do us (well, I'm not one yet) Americans have to keep changing things to "OUR" way?

 

[pysankigirl]

that's pretty neat! bird feather genetics are so cool!

 

[tls_ranch]

I got permission to show the pictures and info about how the Dutch view the issue of breast lacing in male Barnevelders

Dear Trisha,
It took me some time to gather the info on the lacing on the breast of the male Barnevelders. I knew what the Dutch standard used to be, but the overwhelming majority of poultry breeders in Europe are Germans, and so their standards tend to become the "de facto" European standards, which has become the case with the Welsummers whose standard in the Netherlands and the UK is at variance with the German (aka "European") standard. Reportedly, the Dutch and the Germans are currently negotiating some sort of normalization as far as the Welsummers--although I very much doubt that much will come of it. That is why I contacted the Barnevelder Club in the Netherlands so that I could get if as current as possible.

I will try to obtain the PowerPoint presentation as well. I should be able to translate from Dutch anything that is in writing, but would probably have a hard time with the spoken language.

I hope this has been helpful. Please let me know.
Sincerely,
Bjorn Netland


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello Bjorn,

In Holland the Breast from Barnevelder male should be black without lacing. Only at the side near the wings is a little lacing allowed. It is to read in our Dutch standard.

What you are telling about German animals is correct. There they all want to have male Barnevelder with a laced breast. In Holland are such animals sent home with none or very little points.



There is a reason while we not want laced breast by the male. We discovered that male Barnevelder with much brown in the feather in the breast the reason is for female with a bad inner lace in the breast. That Problem is in German very big. In Holland it is also a (new) Problem but not yet so big.

By us good female and male are coming out of the same combination.

The reason why I answered you this male is that I was member of a group people who have made studies about the genetics and problems from the Barnevelder in 2009 till 2012. I’ve made a PowerPoint presentation of it (32 Mb)

I will sent I to you when you like. (with we transfer)
There are many pictures on it but also al lot of words. It is all written in Dutch. You can translate it?
When you are interested I’ll hear it from you.

Are they not nice?

This is not allowed in Holland.

When you use such male animals you get female as shown below.

The color should be as shown below. The inner –lace is good but this should be a bit sharper

A good male Barnvelder with a perfect black breast.


If there are more questions you can sent me a mail.


With friendly greetings

Hendrik Timmer

 

[tls_ranch]

If I had a roo like the one in the last picture....I would be

!!!!!!

Trisha

 

[pysankigirl]

there have been alot of blue laced red wyandottes in this area for sale...if you bred two of them together, would some of the chicks come out this splashed laced coloration?

 

[tls_ranch]

Are you talking about breeding BLR wyandottes together? Yes, that will produce some Splash laced wyandottes, but of course they would be single laced. If you breed blue x blue you'll get 25% splash chicks. I used Splash BLR wyandottes as an out cross to start my project blue Barnevelders. But, it takes several generations to breed out the unwanted genes from the wyandotte to get back to what a Barnevelder should be.

Think of the blue gene as a "dilution gene". One copy dilutes the black areas/markings to blue...2 copies will dilute the blue even more to "white". It's the same blue gene that is in many of the blue breeds. "Self blue" or Lavender is another "blue type" gene but it works differently than what we are talking about.


So.....

If a bird is black it doesn't have any blue genes.
If a bird is blue it has one copy of the blue gene.
If a bird is splash it has two copies of the blue gene.

When breeding the blue:

Parents = Resulting offspring (ideal statistics)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blue x Blue = 25% black, 50% blue, 25% splash
Blue x Black= 50% black, 50% blue
Splash x Black= 100% blue
Splash x Splash= 100% splash
Black x Black= 100% black

 

[pickledchicken]

Trisha thank you for all the info and all you do ! I want to see the pics very badly but they are not showing up on my end, can anyone else see them? I would be forever grateful if you could e-mail me the pics ( its killing me )