Barred Rock/Buff Orpington Crosses

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Cynthia,

I think I did not do a good enough job writing my explanation.

Males that carry two barring genes will almost always (can not say always because stuff happens) give a barring gene to each of its offspring. So barred males almost always father barred offspring. Somewhere in my writing I did not do a good job of explaining this concept. Which you already know. I write many times not only for active writers but spectators.


The barring gene does an excellent job of placing a white bar on an extended black bird, like the barred rock.

The problem with the barring gene is that it will also cause the color of a red bird to become a buff color. I have experienced this in the production of my barred rhode island red. Sometimes it is difficult to see the barring on the females. Like in Cuban longtails birds.

I have males that only contain one barring gene. This allows me to see the potential color in some of the hens. One half of the hens are barred and buff. The other half of the hens are dark mahogany red.

The barring gene is a very good diluter of any pigment-red or black. With red pigment, the barring dilutes the red pigment any where on the bird. (Black is a different story. Not going anywhere with that concept.) So, you wind up with a buff bird that should be a much darker color.

I am currently working on barring on different genetic combinations. Should be interesting. So far I am disappointed in the results but i can not make the genes do something they were not designed to do. Next spring I may be singing a different tune.

The columbian gene only plays a part in adding more silver or gold ( having the columbian gene): less silver or gold to a bird ( not having the columbian gene).


Tim

PS. The almost always thing on the barring- I had a male that had two barring genes produce a non barred female. I went through all of the things that could have caused the anomaly and I eliminated all of the possible causes of the problem. See stuff happens. Something turned off the barring gene or the barring gene was defective. All I know is that it happened.

 

[Krys109uk]

I am currently working on barring on different genetic combinations. Should be interesting. So far I am disappointed in the results but i can not make the genes do something they were not designed to do.

That sounds ineresting.....what are you doing? I've had a few shades of "buff/red" etc from my buff cuckoos.

The almost always thing on the barring- I had a male that had two barring genes produce a non barred female. I went through all of the things that could have caused the anomaly and I eliminated all of the possible causes of the problem. See stuff happens. Something turned off the barring gene or the barring gene was defective. All I know is that it happened.

Would that be reduced penetrance?​

 

[tadkerson]

Krys,

I have not looked into the mechanisms on the cell level that are responsible for reduced pentrance. So there is not much I can say. One more thing I will have to do research on.

The bird did not have any barring at all. Here chick down was different than the other barred birds. I saw that right away and kept an eye on her. I did not have a camera back then so I did not take pictures. She looked like a black sex linked pullet as an adult. I wanted to cross her with a black roo and see what happened but as usual I did not have room for a black rooster. I can only keep so many male birds- I have over 14 breeders now for 6 different projects.

I just did a cross with

I will write more later. i have to go and be a grand pa.

Tim

 

[speckledhen]

Tim, just because I am a bit dense doesn't mean your explanation is lacking, LOL. Thank you, once again, for taking time to explain genetics to me.

 

[tadkerson]

Krys,

I was interested in how other genes would effect sex linked barring. My first cross was a barred rhode island red on a appenzeller spitzhauben. I know what you are thinking- that is crazy appenzellers have all kinds of genes. I do not have the space to breed a variety of birds. I am going to cross the F1 RIR appenzeller; a heterozygous barred silver male with four of his gold barred sisters and see how things segregate and how the segregates effect the sex linked barring. This is not the best way to do it but it is the best way form me to do the work.

I also have a gold female that appears to be dark brown ( as in columbian like restrictor). I am going to cross here with my male barred Rhode island red then back cross to her and see how things turn out. She also carries melanotic in which I am interested.

You may find this interesting. the male and female below are the offspring of a rhode island red male on appenzeller females.

Well as you can see the female is gold and barred (just like her sisters) and does not show any spangling (as I expected) but the male is heterozygous silver/gold and has spangling like crazy. I did not expect any spangling on the males his brothers are barred and spangled but their spangling is pretty sparse- they have a white breast with a few spangles . The males should not be showing spangling but they are. The results would indicate my barred RIR male is carrying Pg and Db. I suspected Db to be in my RIR but not the Pg.

I was sitting and thinking and forgot that my RIR have some barnevelder in them and that is where the Pg came from. DUHHHHH.

I do not know why the females did not show the spangling unless it is a sex influenced thing or the the barring in the females is inhibiting the spangling. I sold all of the non barred females- I wish I had kept them now.

You can see how the barring is really diluting the red in the female. She is an orangish cream color.


Tim

 

[Krys109uk]

That's fascinating Tim. I'm still wrapping my head around your results.

I've found Pg in a few unexpected places including buffs Orps, also Danne Honour, in his "Buff Colouration", mentions Pg sometimes being found in buffs. Interesting to find it in RIR too.

 

[Mahonri]

I learn something new here each and every day.

 

[willkatdawson]

Here are some chicks from my BR roo and BO hen. All four chicken had not one speck of gold coloring on them.
hen

roo

 

[Krys109uk]

All four chicken had not one speck of gold coloring on them

That would be because the male BR carried two silver genes.

Pretty birds.

 

[tadkerson]

As Krys stated Barred rock are silver so the male passed on the silver gene to all of his offspring therefore all of the birds are silver. The male would have inherited a gold gene from the female .

The barred rock is not pure for the extended black gene it appears he was also carrying the brown gene and the columbian gene. The male in your picture is columbian restricted. He is not showing any red ( from the gold) because of the red diluting genes he picked up from the buff female.

The female is also carrying one patten gene- that why her barring looks funny. The heavy black on the end of the feather is caused by the Pg gene. It is not unusual for black birds to carry the pattern gene.

You would expect to get black and barred birds but sometimes that is not the case.

Tim