Barring Gene vs Cuckoo gene

[Nuggetirl]

Are they the same thing? I mean, my head is already spinning trying to piece out BB, Bb, B-, b-, etc, but will a B (used here for barring, b is recessive but FOR WHAT, buff? or is it another modifier of the coat, not color?) ALWAYS produce barring, or could it produce not great barring? (I have a roo that has just a few white tipped feathers, is he Bb with a not great gene?)

And then, where does cuckoo come in? Is it a completely different modifier that just works in a similar way? (connected to Z chromosome etc) or is it a barred gene?

Can you have both? BC male. What phenotype would you end up with? Would BB and Bb be the exact same phenotype? Or is Bb a different looking barring?

My head hurts.

 

[donrae]

I'm not as in depth as a lot of other folks on this, but my basic understanding is barring and cuckoo are the same, genetically. It's the rate of feather growth that gives the crisper bars vs the V shaped cuckoo pattern.

Here's a link where Chris09 went into some nice detail on the third page on barring and cuckoo..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/newestpost/906203

 

[Nuggetirl]

ooo. That makes sense!

So, if I have two fast feathering chicks they can't be barred, even if they have the barred gene.

So, "bad" phenotype. This opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.

 

[Chris09]

.

 

[Chris09]

The gene that makes good clean narrow barring on any Barred bird is the slow Feathering Gene (K), the Barring gene is just a on off switch.

Barring Gene: B
Barring is a Sex-link gene that stops and starts pigment production as in feather growth to give the well-known barring pattern as seen on Barred Rocks. The extremely narrow and sharp barring seen on the Barred Plymouth Rocks is achieved by the presence of the gene ('K') for very slow feathering growth, which allows for a lot of on/off sequences in the time it takes for a feather to grow. The same barring gene ('B') when on a rapid feathering breed gives wide, coarse, fuzzy "Cuckoo Barring" as seen on Cuckoo Marans, Cochins and others. The barring gene also interacts with the gene on the E locus, all of the above examples being based on the E plus melantoics. Thus all these barring and cuckoo breeds would be self-black if they did not have the barring gene. This gene has greater pigment-restricting effect on black pigment than it does on red or gold pigment. When the barring gene is applied to the Wild Type pattern, the Crele variety is produced; and the barring on Columbian pattern combination is seen on Rhodebars, one of the autosexing breeds.

 

[Chris09]

ooo. That makes sense!

So, if I have two fast feathering chicks they can't be barred, even if they have the barred gene.

So, "bad" phenotype. This opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.

Quote: Yes and no.
Yes they carry the barring gene BUT the "pattern" is cuckoo since they lack the the slow feathering gene.
Most barred rocks that hatcheries sell are actually a cuckoo pattern and for the most part a "cuckoo rock"

What are you working on and trying to get?

 

[Nuggetirl]

Not currently working on anything, just want a buff barred Cochin someday. Got two hatched from someone's project, but just ended up with buff. Was trying to figure out what their genotype could be, then got stuck in the buff vs cuckoo question.

 

[nicalandia]

The gene that makes good clean narrow barring on any Barred bird is the slow Feathering Gene (K), the Barring gene is just a on off switch.

Barring Gene: B
Barring is a Sex-link gene that stops and starts pigment production as in feather growth to give the well-known barring pattern as seen on Barred Rocks. The extremely narrow and sharp barring seen on the Barred Plymouth Rocks is achieved by the presence of the gene ('K') for very slow feathering growth, which allows for a lot of on/off sequences in the time it takes for a feather to grow. The same barring gene ('B') when on a rapid feathering breed gives wide, coarse, fuzzy "Cuckoo Barring" as seen on Cuckoo Marans, Cochins and others. The barring gene also interacts with the gene on the E locus, all of the above examples being based on the E plus melantoics. Thus all these barring and cuckoo breeds would be self-black if they did not have the barring gene. This gene has greater pigment-restricting effect on black pigment than it does on red or gold pigment. When the barring gene is applied to the Wild Type pattern, the Crele variety is produced; and the barring on Columbian pattern combination is seen on Rhodebars, one of the autosexing breeds.

Not only that, Columbian Co/Co makes for a crispier Barring gene