Be responsible for your dogs !!!(graphic pics)

[Oblio13]

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Au contraire, mademoiselle.

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Unless you told him to sit, in his little dog-brain he's telling you what to do instead of vice versa.

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Yes. And if I did something about it, that would be dominant behavior.

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Almost every dog that does "flip out and bite" has a history just like Tim's, with owners who anthropomorphized it. They always express amazement because they didn't see that they were training it all along to make independent decisions and to consider itself equal to humans.

 

[horsejody]

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Au contraire, mademoiselle.

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Unless you told him to sit, in his little dog-brain he's telling you what to do instead of vice versa.

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Yes. And if I did something about it, that would be dominant behavior.

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Almost every dog that does "flip out and bite" has a history just like Tim's, with owners who anthropomorphized it. They always express amazement because they didn't see that they were training it all along to make independent decisions and to consider itself equal to humans.

Well said. It reminds me of a husky/wolf cross and a doberman than used to live nearby. The owner was amazed that they killed my turkey and the doberman nipped 2 kids because they were such wonderful and gregarious dogs and so good with other animals and kids. That owner was actually arrested and hauled in by the sherriff. I love my sherriff's department.

I have a dog that I treat like a child. He is a spoiled brat, but he weighs 20 pounds and is always supervised outside. So far, he likes my chickens, but I am sure that, if given the chance, he would harm a neighbor's birds because they wouldn't be part of his flock. That's why I supervise him.

 

[ninjapoodles]

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One that I don't allow, that I find most people think is "cute," is when they come over and nudge their nose under your hand, "forcing" you to pet them. NOPE. Not allowed! Seems cute and attention-seeking, but it's just a heartbeat away from progressively more obnoxious behavior. We never fix the dogs' dinner before we eat our own, and we NEVER allow them to precede us through a doorway--that's a BIG one for me. I keep my sister's two dogs when she travels, and I always spend the first day re-teaching a "wait" command while I open the door. Ugh.

Dogs have to have a consistent pack order, or they feel insecure and fill that void themselves, and as vigilant as I am about it, I still find myself occasionally slipping up--and when I do, it's because I'm thinking of my dog like a person (this is super-easy to do when you have standard and miniature poodles). One thing I catch myself doing sometimes is stepping OVER a dog who's lying in my path. Oops. All of my dogs know what the word "move" means.

You have to really watch for situations in which the dog is training YOU. It happens ALL the time! Operant conditioning is a two-way street, for sure!

 

[moenmitz]

I am going to just concede defeat here, and try very hard to walk away from this debate. I can see I am not getting anywhere, and I cant really see why it is I thought I should try.

You are all RIGHT, ok? Basing the decision on the rights of the majority versus the rights of the minority-

ALL dogs should have to be physically restrained at all times. My gentle giant SHOULD have to be fenced. Absolutely. That day may come. But fortunately I think, it isnt here yet, and until it is, I will choose to exercise my rights in this area and assume the risk that that entails.


As far as that goes...weighing the needs of the majority, and considering the severity of the risk entailed....
any breed known to have a significant tendency towards aggressive behavior should be destroyed and said breeds should be all but eliminated. Even Tim. It ISN'T fair to risk the life of one child for that of a million dogs, is it? I love dogs to death, but I would have to say, no, not really.


BUT....

Where else might this path take us?......

Smoking is a burden on the healthcare system that we support. It is damaging to the air that all humans must breathe. There really is no positive side to it. So, cigarettes should be outlawed completely, even in ones own home, because, after all...strangers like mail men, meter readers, etc will stop by, and their rights are being violated by smoking.... and then these "smokers' often have children, and we have to think of them...and do we really want to put them all in foster homes? Nope, better take away the cancer sticks.

Hmmmm...Obesity, teen pregnancy and homosexuality also create a huge burden on the aforementioned health care system....so something should be done about those people. What to do, what to do......

Well, force gastric bypass on the obese...if that doesn't work, perhaps some sort of physical barrier could be installed...a shock collar perhaps...?

Teen pregnancy...at puberty, how about we implant birth control? It IS reversible after all.

As for those that already are pregnant...well, evidence shows they are likely to get pregnant again, so forced sterilization might be something to consider...

Homosexuals...ooo...any ideas?

Prisoners....they are really expensive to rehabilitate and care for, and the reform rate is pretty low....who really values criminals? Well, other than their families that is....But the majority should not have to assume risk because of the minority...so, electric chair for everybody!

What about petty crime? We all know it usually escalates into something much more serious, so why wait for the inevitable? Might as well save some time, money and heartache and zap them too.

of course now....most crimes are committed by minority males...education programs are a possibility...oh wait, we have tried those, pretty limited success...how about electronic ankle monitors from the age of ten? They aren't painful, or really even restrictive, it just seems like a good idea to keep track of "those kinds of people" you know....

Pretty appalling ideas aren't they? And before you all get mad, I am not by any means comparing having to confine my dog to forced sterilization, or any of the other ludicrous thoughts I expressed. But there are those who would, and have. Nazi Germany ring a bell? It's a slippery slope once you start taking away rights that we have enjoyed for many, many years. A Utopian society where nobody elses rights ever had any effect on the rights of others would be ideal, sure. But mankind is not capable of creating Utopia. It has been tried. I would mention the ONE who WOULD be able to justly do so, but no one seems to want to give his thoughts on anything much credence it would seem, and that too, explains alot about the world we live in.

And so now we have gone from loose dogs and dead chickens, passed through bible-land and arrived at an enormous ethical debate with NO solution that will please everybody.

This country was founded by those who were tired of being told how to live, and who wished to be free to choose the way they lived and worshipped without fear of punishment. If everyone would just do their BEST to be considerate of others and THEIR personal rights, there would be no need for restrictive laws that would affect those it shouldn't. But that isn't something anyone here can promise, or obtain for others, is it?

I wish only to remind people of the dangers that can appear from seemingly nowhere once you start telling people the right way for THEM to live....

I know I have done a good job of protecting others from my dog, and I can sleep at night. At the end of the day...that is all any of us really want, isn't it?

 

[ninjapoodles]

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And those people are called MY NEIGHBORS.

And there is no talking to any of them. All you get back is the "Oh, he/she is harmless. Just holler at 'em to go home." We used to leave our large drive-gate at the top of the hill open, but now we can't even do that. I can't explain to these people things like, oh, say, their dog carries brucellosis, visits my property, and pees. Then later, I let one of my champion/champion-producing grump out, she sniffs where the infected dog peed, contracts brucellosis, and then *bang*, she's never having any more puppies.

They just don't understand that, even IF their dog doesn't do any damage, I DON'T WANT THEM HERE. I am not in control of that dog's management, so I shouldn't have to host it on my property. Does it have hookworms or whipworms that it will deposit in MY soil? Has it been exposed to disease that it's carrying to my house? All of you chicken people know how careful you are about contamination...well, we dog people are the same way, especially if we are, or will be, expecting puppies.

 

[Oblio13]

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I don't think we should lump all pregnant-obese-teenage-gay-skinhead-felon-smokers-with-an-invisible-friend into the same category. My wife and sisters are responsible dog owners.





:|

 

[Ellie_NY_chick]

Boy-o-boy, how did we get here?

I think we're all frustrated by irresponsible dog owners. And irresponsible parents, drivers, coworkers, and any other irresponsible people in the world.

When something happens that is so preventable, I think it stirs a lot of emotions in people. I think it's important to remember that we're all essentially good folks here, even if we might have a differing opinion on something.

Speaking only for myself, when someone quotes a specific line from one of my posts, I take that as a direct response to me, not a response or a thought in general. If we do something like that, I think we should do it with great care, as again, in my opinion, it can be seen as ganging-up or bullying someone and really hurting their feelings, whether you mean to or not.

Z, I hope your situation gets resolved, and your neighbor pays for what happened.

 

[fowltemptress]

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I don't think we should lump all pregnant obese teenage gay skinhead felons with an invisible friend into the same category. Some of them are responsible dog owners.

Oblio, you are too funny!

 

[ninjapoodles]

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I don't think we should lump all pregnant obese teenage gay skinhead felons with an invisible friend into the same category. Some of them are responsible dog owners.

Yes, but now that Goddard's Law has been invoked, aren't we done?

edited for accidental emoticon

 

[nautical_bouy]

My animals on my property are my responsibility, your animal on my property was my problem and I have bettered the economy because said problem removed has freed up extra cash by no longer needing food and a vets care.

To compare a loose dog to my smoking is crazy, me burning one outside doesn't harm you or your pets, livestock, or family,,, or mine.

I'm far worse for the chemicals, dirt, dust, fumes,and lots of radiation I am exposed to keeping your lights on.

No one ever said those poor power plant workers, we should outlaw electric because poor gary pays NINE freaking dollars an hour for health insurance.

Thats all my choice, I do not complain about them or burden others with my choices, now when anothers bad choice, as in letting a dog roam and scare my kids or stock, or harm them.

Yes I have put down my own dogs, for running deer.
I have no tolerance for a dog that harasses other animals or live stock, and they were my pets so someone elses is as easy as swatting a fly.

I have my own problems just like everyone else,,, I will not stand for someone else's problem giving me more.