Beating a dead horse *Changed to Breeding Project Talk Update Post 71*

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

Quote:

I definitely like your idea, and plan on doing it further down the line, but unfortunately I lost my big Heritage Deli so I can't do that on the F1's.

 

[SteveH]

As you've already experienced by your customer's responce, the American consumer has become used to lighter colored, milder flavored meat......................... though there does seem to be a movement back towards the richer flavored meats that only a few of even my generation were raised on. Your free range CX were geneticly geared [probably not intentionally, but as a result of breeding for the quickest growing, highest ftm ratio bird] towards light colored, mild flavored dark meat, but probably had better flavor due to useing their muscles more than those in tractors or confinement do. IMO, feed plays a major role also, and substituteing part of their commercially processed diets with natural vegetation, grains, and insects or meat scraps could result in a huge improovement to flavor, color, and texture.

While a couple of disasters have stymied my progress, I'm still attempting to develope a variety, based on CX crosses, that will provide a Cornish bodied bird that is ready for processing in about the same time span as a Freedom Ranger. One of the qualities I admire in a CX is that wider body caviity; personally I find the more narrow bodied birds more difficult to process, it's hard to get my hand in there to clean them................................ and to me there's something about that full breasted bird that makes for a better looking meal when served. Raising the terminal end CX to breeding maturity and making crosses is a pain, but with Katy's birds, that was already done for you a few generations back, giving you a great jump start. I believe those juvies you have from her will play a major role in your future successes. Best wishes with your project!

 

[Jared77]

I definitely like your idea, and plan on doing it further down the line, but unfortunately I lost my big Heritage Deli so I can't do that on the F1's.

Id still try it with the KSM and the FR roos you have. That's just me though. Sorry to hear you lost your Deli.

Steve is the body shape something that could be selected for in the FR? Or by crossing it to something like the Cornish (not the CX but the Cornish?) or something with a shorter back more squarely/cobby built bird like a Buckeye or a Wyandotte? Say a FR over some Cornish hens, or a FR over a Buckeye or Wyandotte and work on altering the shape a bit?

Just wondering aloud......​

 

[Oregon Blues]

Just a comment: It's entirely possible to have a very large, very fast growing bird without leg problems. Pekin ducks will be 7-8 pounds at 8 weeks of age and as long as they get sufficient niacin, they won't have any leg problems.

Duck legs are generally much weaker than chicken legs, so if a duck can do it, there is no reason that a chicken can't be developed that will grow that fast without leg issues.

 

[SteveH]

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I kept CX long term with few leg problems. One developed bumblefoot from a puncture wound, and eventually went lame on the other leg because he was transferring most of his weight to it, but this was at 6 months of age. The other attempted to fight a roo through the fence at around 9 months; I saw him go airborn part way up the fence and looked to either have broken or dislocated a toe when he landed. He was lame and went down hill from that point on, and developed heart problems before turning 1 year. One pullet flew over a four foot fence to gain access to the feed trough in the next pen, and limped for a few days, but recovered. [I had not dreamed that clipping a CX's wings might be necessary.]

I had started adding free choice limestone and then oyster shell as these birds neared laying age [around 16 weeks]. I was surprized, at first, that it was the males that tore into the calcium so heavy at first; but considering the frames those guys were developing, I suppose the feed that was formulated to get them to market weight is too low on that nutrient. [I fed rationed amounts of commercial grower crumbles, and later a custom ground layer mash supplemented with cat food; they had to forage for natural food and tossed table scraps if they wanted more to eat.] I have seen pictures of actual leg problems in both CX and FR, but wonder if some so called leg problems are actually cases of ascites; I had a couple of those early on because I failed to keep their rations low enough at one point.

 

[SteveH]

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Sure, I think quality Cornish crossed on any quicker developing breed or meat strain is an already prooven idea; while there is some debate, the Buckeye supposedly was developed off a different game breed, much the same as Cornish was, and of course the CX was developed off Cornish. There were many good breeds they relied on before the CX was developed, the simple Cornish cross to Delaware, New Hampshire Red, or Plymouth Rock were excellent, and they're still quite suitable today for processing at 16 to 24 weeks today if you can find a breeder of these heritage breeds to obtain your breeding stock from.

Sadly, after much time and effort spent procurring a couple of quality Dark Cornish cockerals from a show line, I lost them to a natural disaster with only a handful of their descendents to keep. I also lost their three best male offspring to another disaster, but now have some of Big Medicine's blue laced red Cornish projects to work with; they're geneticly over 50% Lewis Straight's old line of White Cornish, with breeder quality Bramah, Cochin, and Wyandotte making up the rest of their lineage. They are looking to be fine meat birds themselves, though so far appear to be as slow growing for me as pure Cornish. I realize that CX carry with them some obvious problems; but the 50 years of breeding and developing the qualities they have can't be duplicated in whatever's left of my own lifetime, even if I had access to the formulae and stock that was used............................ hopefully I can utilize some of their better qualities while developing a healthier bird that is no longer reliant on keeping and crossing seperate lines. If not, I'm enjoying the time trying.