Beating a dead horse *Changed to Breeding Project Talk Update Post 71*

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

Just wanted to give everyone an update on my experiences, I kinda forgot about this thread since I have been posting on the RED LACED CORNISH thread so much.

To date I have tried;

Ideal's Cornish X
Ideal's Red Broilers
Katy's Secret Mix (KSM)
JM's Freedom Rangers


A few quick points and experience summary;

1. Growth Rates: Cornish coming in first (of course). Freedom Rangers second. KSM third. Red Broilers last.

2. Red Broilers are NOT Freedom Rangers. Completely different bird.


Cornish: Frankenchicken. Had 8. Surprisingly, from all my customers except one, they seem to prefer the taste of these. 2 with leg problems 2 with heart problems. Almost all had trouble breathing and walking around. Tried to keep a few females for breeding program, but they couldn't last.

Red Broilers: I wasn't too impressed at all with the Red Broilers. Had 14. 1 with leg problems, 1 with heart/ lung problems, and about 3 with funky wings (similar to angel wing in ducks). I expected something similar to the Cornish, but with slower growth rates and smaller breasts. What I got was something that was barely better than hatchery dual purpose. They seemed to grow pretty quick but instead of putting on a lot of weight at the end like the Cornish, they slowed down. There was also the fact that they were so varied in their sized and weights. I had two boys that were huge, 8-9 pounds and one female that was tiny, maybe 4 or 5 pounds. The rest were NOT that big. There was just a huge variation in what you will get. Also, they were UGLY. I have never seen chickens with such funktified wings and ratty feathers. Have no clue why, other chickens in the same pen looked fine. I will NOT be ordering these again. Kept 2 of the largest females for breeding program.

KSM birds: So far I am really happy with these, although I only have 4 to base my opinion off of. They are growing well, clean, forage well, and are pretty.

One had genetic problems the rest are doing great. Keeping these 4 for breeding program.

Freedom Rangers: So far I am REALLY liking the FR's. Have 14 of them. They are my favorite so far. No heart/ lung/ leg issues (yet). And they are growing fantastically. They don't *look* that big, but when you pick them up they are like a small brick. Another plus is that they are VERY easily sexed. Can feather sex, males feather MUCH more slowly and develop comb and wattle very early, making the difference noticeable early on. Clean, not too smelly, forage great, and pretty to look at. I have 3 males and 11 females, will probably keep all but the runt from females and the 2 biggest males for breeding program. Very happy with these.


My goal is to take these and get the very best traits from each breed and develop my own line of healthy self sustaining (but big) meat birds.

Hope this helps someone a little bit!!!

 

[rebel-rousing-at-night]

Quote:
Darn,where was this info when I bought the red broilers? Also I didn't know they are to have more dark than light meat.

 

[hallerlake]

I prefer dark meat.

 

[Merryment]

Interesting study. Thanks!

My only question is, if all of these birds are crosses (not breeds), how are you going to have a breeding program? They won't breed true. Are you going to be selecting for certain traits, and if so, which ones? Sorry, I've always been a science geek...

 

[Roccomanchickens]

Thank you for your post. I have always raised the cornish X because I didn't know any better. Started out before there was internet and access to all this information. I am raising my last batch of cornish X as I write this. I processed 10 of the 50 last week as well a a "cull" Ameracauna rooster; what a difference! The rooster was 22 weeks old, but I make "Coq au vin" out of him and it was wonderful! If you prefer the taste of old fashioned chicken, any rooster is better than cornish x. I too have gotten the "hatching bug" and will be looking for good breeds to make meat birds out of.

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

Quote:


Yes, I am starting with a BIG gene pool. I know they won't breed true but if you select for the same traits hatch after hatch eventually you will get something that will.

I will be looking for;

Size & Growth
More Muscle vs. Skeleton
Health & Vigor
Foraging & Natural Instincts
Longevity


Basically I want a big fat healthy bird that will live a long time.

My plan is to;

1. Take the first rooster (which is a BIG Heritage Delaware) and put him over my Red Broiler females. I have their eggs in the 'bator now. From those babies pick the biggest/ fastest growing/ healthiest females.

2. Put those females and the Red Broiler females and the Freedom Ranger females over the next male (which is a big KSM mix). Hatch a BUNCH of those eggs and keep most if not all of the females.

3. Put all females at this point under a Freedom Ranger male (or best male to date) and hatch a bunch of their babies.

4. Start replacing orginal females with offspring with more uniform and (hopefully) better traits.

5. Will be culling most of the males along the way in each step to see how quickly they are growing and skeletal mass vs meat.

6. Once I have a flock of all offspring with desirable traits I will keep breeding those to each other until it is more uniform and continue keeping those offspring.

Whew! A lot of work, but I already have my foundations on the ground (and in the incubator).

 

[LeelooD]

Quote:
That's what I'm gonna have to do to my rooster (who was sold to me as a pullet by a disreputable or stupid breeder) if I can't find anyone to take him. My husband thinks he can kill him. I've never processed a bird and I'm not looking forward to it, but I feel obligated to give the bird the most quick and useful end possible.

 

[Phage]

Hi Cari, this is interesting. How will you be able to determine the skeletal mass from the meat mass? We use imaging to look at fat v non-fat v skeletal mass in other animals. I suspect the percent difference in true skeletal mass between birds will be small, when you take into account the different weights of the birds it will be complex to assess.

Another thought is as the skeleton is often what fails in many of the meet birds (broken and deformed legs etc). I would be very wary of breeding for light skeleton in meaties.

Quote:

 

[Jared77]

I see where your going with this, and I like it. The only thing that Id do differently would be to take the daughters each roo sires and do a father x daughter breeding. The older hens get moved onto the next roo like you planned. That would help strengthen the traits you like. This would give you more chicks on the ground to decide from and work with, PLUS you'll get consistency faster. You've already got enough hens to move through, and Id keep really good notes and bands on who was out of what breeding to see how each produced.

Just my 2 cents.....don't be surprised if I start trying to beg some chicks off you

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

Quote:

I'm not necessarily breeding for a light frame, as yes that is what fails sometimes. HOWEVER, I have noticed on my red broilers that they are long and lanky and mostly skeleton until well past 16 weeks (THIS is what I want to avoid) whereas the others start putting on their meat early, which to me is more desirable. Therefore if I get any babies like that which basically aren't meaty enough young enough, then they will not be introduced into the breeding program.