best brand of chicken feed?

[seminolewind]

Quote from Michael:


Feeding too high a balance of cereal grains will fatten a bird. Feeding too high a balance of protein will cause gout, enteritis, among other things. Yes, a bad outcome can result from imbalance. Some range birds and some do not. Some raise layers and some raise broilers. Perhaps it would be more accurate to ask,"What should a good quality feed ration consist of for my purpose of raising chickens?" Perhaps that is another thread. There are some very well formulated rations out there as well as bad ones. Knowing nutrient content of feedstuffs, and the required four groups of nutrients answers the particulars.
1. Minerals
2.Vitamins
3. Protein supplements
4. Energy producing feedstuffs.

Then we have optimum amounts determined through research which are required during growth to maturity. Interesting that riboflavin and vitamin D should be increased for breeding stock compared that of laying stock. It is all interesting information



I agree. The balance of ingredients and minimum requirements is well researched. It appears tho, that there are people who are not satisfied with their flock getting the "minimum daily requirements", and mix in other feeds to increase the nutritional value of what they feed their chickens.

Which looks to me like many are not satisfied with what's available, and would like to see a feed produced that has higher than minimal nutritional requirements.

Heck, I look at Seminole feeds down here and they have at least 20 different feeds for horses so that an owner can pick out exactly what they want their horse to get. But only one Layer feed. Maybe people would like more choices labeled specifically for layers.

 

[Chris09]

Feeding too high a balance of cereal grains will fatten a bird. Feeding too high a balance of protein will cause gout, enteritis, among other things. Yes, a bad outcome can result from imbalance. Some range birds and some do not. Some raise layers and some raise broilers. Perhaps it would be more accurate to ask,"What should a good quality feed ration consist of for my purpose of raising chickens?" Perhaps that is another thread. There are some very well formulated rations out there as well as bad ones. Knowing nutrient content of feedstuffs, and the required four groups of nutrients answers the particulars.
1. Minerals
2.Vitamins
3. Protein supplements
4. Energy producing feedstuffs.

Then we have optimum amounts determined through research which are required during growth to maturity. Interesting that riboflavin and vitamin D should be increased for breeding stock compared that of laying stock. It is all interesting information.

We can lengthen that from just layers and broiler to;
Layers, broilers, breeders, exhibition stock, rooster, non-laying hens etc.
They all require different amounts of nutrition.

There are some very good formulas out there, then again there are a lot more junk ones out there. lol

I believe (if I remember correctly) Riboflavin and Vit. D has to do more with the chick and the chicks health than the laying/breading hen and that would be why it is added to a breeder ration and not a layer ration.

I would also like to say before anyone thinks I am against mixing there own feed, or making a feed mix better by adding ingredients to fit there need, I am not in fact I mixed my own feed for sometime till I got tired of mixing then later on having to call it into the mill to have it mixed.

 

[Michael Apple]

We can lengthen that from just layers and broiler to;
Layers, broilers, breeders, exhibition stock, rooster, non-laying hens etc.
They all require different amounts of nutrition.

There are some very good formulas out there, then again there are a lot more junk ones out there. lol

I believe (if I remember correctly) Riboflavin and Vit. D has to do more with the chick and the chicks health than the laying/breading hen and that would be why it is added to a breeder ration and not a layer ration.

I would also like to say before anyone thinks I am against mixing there own feed, or making a feed mix better by adding ingredients to fit there need, I am not in fact I mixed my own feed for sometime till I got tired of mixing then later on having to call it into the mill to have it mixed.

Riboflavin (B2) is required for formation of an enzyme present in all living cells. It preserves the health of peripheral nerves. Embryos formed in a hen's egg with a riboflavin deficient diet are dwarfed. It should be added to both breeder and layer rations at equal levels in my opinion. There should be no difference since the end result is egg quality. I know what you mean about it being essential in chicks. It is quite possible that some of the posts in the Emergencies section of the forum, where young birds are suffering from leg paralysis, isn't due to Marek's Disease, but a poor quality formulated feed deficient in riboflavin.

I always wanted my birds to be healthy inside and out. I think some breed clubs can be beneficial to new people and their favored breeds, in addition to good literature on the subject. Like some formulated feed, there is junk literature and valuable literature on the subject of raising chickens.

 

[Michael Apple]

I agree. The balance of ingredients and minimum requirements is well researched. It appears tho, that there are people who are not satisfied with their flock getting the "minimum daily requirements", and mix in other feeds to increase the nutritional value of what they feed their chickens.

Sure. I'm not satisfied with minimum daily requirements either, which is why I supplement.

Which looks to me like many are not satisfied with what's available, and would like to see a feed produced that has higher than minimal nutritional requirements.

That's where the buyer has power to demand, and them to supply or lose business to those who will meet demands.

Heck, I look at Seminole feeds down here and they have at least 20 different feeds for horses so that an owner can pick out exactly what they want their horse to get. But only one Layer feed. Maybe people would like more choices labeled specifically for layers.

There are a few of them here who do with marketing techniques of Corn-Free, Soy-Free, and replacing it with linseed meal or canola meal in order to satisfy the anti-GMO segment. I understand that segment's desire for feed free of GMO, but canola and linseed is not a good nutritional alternative to organic corn or soy. Nor does it have to be organic in GMO-Free feeds, so that defeats the purpose altogether. I would prefer to see dried whey as an addition due to the nutritive qualities of milk as an animal protein. Raw millet also has it's share of riboflavin and other B vitamins.

We have become a society demanding convenience in many ways, good and bad, and sometimes we need to just face the fact that we can just do it on our own, and to hell with the status quo. That doesn't help new people entertaining the idea of raising chickens, but they are responsible for seeking legitimate research as well. Most of us raising birds for ourselves desire longevity for them, where industry wants a bird they can usher to market and remains palatable to the customer, or produce eggs for a year. I have yet to ever find an egg sold in the grocery store that taste as good as those from my birds. I think most people raising birds for a time notice that about their eggs.

 

[Chris09]

Riboflavin (B2) is required for formation of an enzyme present in all living cells. It preserves the health of peripheral nerves. Embryos formed in a hen's egg with a riboflavin deficient diet are dwarfed. It should be added to both breeder and layer rations at equal levels in my opinion. There should be no difference since the end result is egg quality. I know what you mean about it being essential in chicks. It is quite possible that some of the posts in the Emergencies section of the forum, where young birds are suffering from leg paralysis, isn't due to Marek's Disease, but a poor quality formulated feed deficient in riboflavin.

I always wanted my birds to be healthy inside and out. I think some breed clubs can be beneficial to new people and their favored breeds, in addition to good literature on the subject. Like some formulated feed, there is junk literature and valuable literature on the subject of raising chickens.

Some vitamins/ minerals are somewhat higher in a breeder feed than a layer feed, Riboflavin is one of the vitamins that is increased. Just the opposite can be said with calcium and phosphorus they are decreased slightly to accommodate for the rooster/s in the breeding pen/s.
Riboflavin affect a lot of things, egg quality I don't believe is one of them.

RIBOFLAVIN DEFICIENCY

Many tissues may be affected by riboflavin deficiency, although the epithelium and the myelin sheaths of some of the main nerves are major targets. Changes in the sciatic nerves produce “curled-toe” paralysis in growing chickens. Egg production is affected, and riboflavin-deficient eggs do not hatch. When chicks are fed a diet deficient in riboflavin, their appetite is fairly good but they grow slowly, become weak and emaciated, and develop diarrhea between the first and second weeks. Deficient chicks are reluctant to move unless forced and then frequently walk on their hocks with the aid of their wings. The leg muscles are atrophied and flabby, and the skin is dry and harsh. In advanced stages of deficiency, the chicks lie prostrate with their legs extended, sometimes in opposite directions. The characteristic sign of riboflavin deficiency is a marked enlargement of the sciatic and brachial nerve sheaths; sciatic nerves usually show the most pronounced effects. Histologic examination of the affected nerves shows degenerative changes in the myelin sheaths that, when severe, pinch the nerve. This produces a permanent stimulus, which causes the curled-toe paralysis.
Signs of riboflavin deficiency in the hen are decreased egg production, increased embryonic mortality, and an increase in size and fat content of the liver. Hatchability declines within 2 wk when hens are fed a riboflavin-deficient diet, but returns to near normal when riboflavin is restored. Affected embryos are dwarfed and show characteristically defective “clubbed” down. The nervous system of these embryos shows degenerative changes much like those described in riboflavin-deficient chicks.
Signs of riboflavin deficiency first appear at 10 days of incubation, when embryos become hypoglycemic and accumulate intermediates of fatty acid oxidation. Although flavin-dependent enzymes are depressed with riboflavin deficiency, the main effect seems to be impaired fatty acid oxidation, which is a critical function in the developing embryo. An autosomal recessive trait blocks the formation of the riboflavin-binding protein needed for transport of riboflavin to the egg. While the adults appear normal, their eggs fail to hatch regardless of dietary riboflavin content. As eggs become deficient in riboflavin, the egg albumen loses its characteristic yellow color. In fact, albumen color score has been used to assess riboflavin status of birds.
Chicks receiving diets only partially deficient in riboflavin may recover spontaneously, indicating that the requirement rapidly decreases with age. A 100-μg dose should be sufficient for treatment of riboflavin-deficient chicks, followed by incorporation of an adequate level in the diet. However, when the curled-toe deformity is longstanding, irreparable damage occurs in the sciatic nerve, and the administration of riboflavin is no longer curative.
Most diets contain up to 10 mg riboflavin/kg. Treatment can be given as two 100 μg doses for chicks or poults, followed by an adequate amount of riboflavin in feed.

 

[Chris09]

Linseed meal and canola meal aren't used to replace corn, it can be used to help replace soy but not corn.
Also linseed meal and canola meal is different (nutritionally) than linseed and canola.

 

[Michael Apple]

Linseed meal and canola meal aren't used to replace corn, it can be used to help replace soy but not corn.
Also linseed meal and canola meal is different (nutritionally) than linseed and canola.

Still not a quality nutritional alternative. Corn free and soy-free labeled rations I've seen here always contain either of the two.

 

[Michael Apple]

Some vitamins/ minerals are somewhat higher in a breeder feed than a layer feed, Riboflavin is one of the vitamins that is increased.
Riboflavin affect a lot of things, egg quality I don't believe is one of them.

And that higher amount recommended for breeder rations should be the same amount in layer rations, since it would only benefit birds. All nutrient essentials, including riboflavin determine bird health, thus determine egg quality. Perhaps you know more than pioneers in poultry science such as Morley Jull, for instance?

 

[Chris09]

Still not a quality nutritional alternative. Corn free and soy-free labeled rations I've seen here always contain either of the two.

Oh, I'm say it is.
I was just saying that don't replace corn.

 

[Chris09]

And that higher amount recommended for breeder rations should be the same amount in layer rations, since it would only benefit birds. All nutrient essentials, including riboflavin determine bird health, thus determine egg quality. Perhaps you know more than pioneers in poultry science such as Morley Jull, for instance?

The higher amounts recommended in a breeder mix is more for the chick within the egg than the hen herself. The hen will get her nutrition no matter what, some of the "extra" nutrition will go to the embryo and that helps with a good hatch rate and healthy chicks.

I wouldn't say that I know more than Morley,,, but I do know that a lot in poultry nutrition has changed since the 50's. Shoot even the birds has changed.