Bibbed VS Pied PICS


9 Years
Feb 5, 2010
Mary Valley QLD.
Hi guys, Another colour question!!!! Well some of you have seen my black pied runner drake before, but after talking to a friend she is convinced he is a miss marked bibbed! I really disagree with her, so I want to see what you guys think! I have added some pics for comparison. First pic is a true bibbed runner then all the others are of my boy.


Bibbed runner female

My boy and his brother

The back of his neck

one of the boys as a duckling

Any advice would be great, cheers guys
I remember us talking about that bird before. When you first mentioned him, I thought he was probably a Bibbed simply because that is much more common and is frequently associated with extended black. Looking at the pictures though, I am leaning more towards Pied (then and still now). It is just so hard to say. If he is Bibbed (which is entirely possible), he is very mismarked. Either way, he is gorgeous and will pass the placement of the white on to least some of his offspring. I am still thinking he looks more Pied, than Bibbed. Of course, he could look more Pied, but really be Bibbed. Anything is possible.
All of the Bibbed Mallards that I have seen have also had some amount of excess black at a minimum or been Black Bibbed. I haven't seen any, that I recall, that have looked completely normal wild type other than the Bib. On the other hand, I have seen *LOTS* of Pied birds that are otherwise normal wild type (Gray Mallard). That seems consistent with what a lot of people that have studied the genetics have said, Bibbed is closely related to extended Black. The brother of your Black bird definitely looks Pied, not Bibbed.

I think you should be able to get bibbed birds in any colour I believe (except no colour = white, the gene may still be there, but you can't see evidence of it). Think of the dark campbell coloured Hook Bills for example, essentially dark campbells with A bib (possible link with extended black & dusky genes?). The gene for "bib" is a gene (either dominant or recessive?) which inhibits either pigment production, or, piment is produced but inhibited from getting into the feather on the neck/chest area (usually). The dominant runner pattern gene, recessive white gene (when homozygous?), & recessive white primary gene (when homozygous?) all essentially prevent feather pigmentation in specific areas on the bird.

But how variably do these genes express? My understanding is that the bibbed area (non-pimented area) can vary considerably, possibly influenced to some degree by either homozygous/heterozygous state of gene/s involved (& of course, other factors possibly).

Possible scenarios: bibbed gene involvement; runner (pied) gene involvement. I am not familiar at all with either, but from birds I have seen, you black runner is....................very hard to tell

Maybe looking to his siblings will help to tell the story (although unless the birds are pure that won't mean that he & siblings will all be pure genetically)

Your birds look nice Cheers

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