I have some questions about Duck Colours Genetics

[Papaye]

Hello!

I know there is already a really, REALLY useful thread abour colour genetics : https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/mallard-derived-duck-color-genetics-basics.74277/
But sadly, this thread does not answer all of my questions, because I read some of more elsewhere, and I am a bit lost about some things...

So... I have questions about my runners ducks.
Indian runners come with lot of different colours, and I would really like to know what I can get from mines...

...Last mating season, I had my four adult runners copulating.

A mistake caused by the one who sold me these runners had me get not 1 drake and 3 ducks like I wanted to, but 2 drakes and 2 ducks...
So, the ratio male-females was way off... That's not a problem in fall and winter, but in mating season (spring and summer)...? My drakes were so agressive I had to put them away in another pen... (Poor boys...)
But not before to allow them to fertilize the eggs!!

Thus : I had brooding chickens sit on these eggs, and I was lucky enough to meet the cutest little ducklings...!
These ducklings came in 4 colours :
- white,
- light dusky,
- (faulted) trout,
- black bibbed (with only one of them having a "perfect" bib : the others having just got white spots on the chest area and just near the bill).

Knowing their parents are :
- 1 trout drake,
- 1 white drake,
- 1 light dusky duck,
- 1 black duck, with only a little, little bit of white on the chest area and near the bill (hard to see, but clearly coming from the bib gene...? I believe her parents are two PURE black, but...).

So... I wonder about the ducklings' feathers colouring...

Thus, my questions are those :

1 - Are my black bibbed ALL born from my trout drake's seeds?

I KNOW "Trout X Black" makes "Black Bibbed"... and since the ducklings have more white spots than their mother, I am pretty sure my trout drake is their father...
But I am no expert about genetics, and I wonder if there is a minor possibility my white drake could be their father...?

2 - WHO is my light dusky's father?

Since the mother is a light dusky... is the white drake the father?
Because, I don't know... could a "Trout drake X Light Dusky duck" give pure "Light Dusky offspring"...? Should they not have some default in the colouring, with a trout father...?

3 - How did I get a faulted trout duckling?

My faulted trout was born an ordinary trout duckling...
Her father is my trout drake, obviously... but her mother?
I don't think her mother is my black duck, since "Trout X Black" = "Black Bibbed"... but is it a 100 percent certainty?
...Otherwise, her mother would surely be my light dusky duck... and if so : could I ever have a chance to get PURE trout babies with my trout drake and my light dusky duck...?

4 - How can I get rid of the bib?

I think I read somewhere I could get rid of my blacks' bibs if their ducklings get TWO dusky alleles...?
So... could I get some PURE black ducklings from my trout drake and my black (bibbed) adult duck...?

Or... would it be possible to have them by breeding one of my black duckling (the young drake - son of the trout drake) with a light dusky duck...?

5 - What colours could I get in the next mating season?

For the time being, I own :
- 1 trout drake,
- 1 white drake,
- 1 black bibbed drake,
- 3 light dusky ducks,
- 2 white ducks,
- 2 black bibbed ducks,
- 1 faulted trout duck.
(Taking in account the fact I will keep them in three different pens, because I don't want any inbreeding problems...!)

The light dusky colour... the seller told me it was called "Brun Sauvage" in my country, and that I could get "Mallard" and "Brown" ducklings...
Is it true?

...
Thank you to the ones who will read and answer me...!
(And sorry!!!)

I am posting some pictures.
Not great quality, but if it could help...
(If you want to, I can post others...!!)

First picture : my 2 adult drakes - the DADS.

Second picture : my 2 adult ducks - the MOMS.

Third picture : the faulted trout duckling (now an adult, at 6 months and a half old).

Fourth picture : the ducklings I keep for the time being (now 3 months old).

(Not so good pictures, because I don't know how to take beautiful pictures...
My young black drake's feathers are, actually, already so shiny he could put a Cayuga to shame, and so... my mom told me to keep him!)

Thank you again!

Also : nice to meet you!

 

[Miss Lydia]

I love your Runners and I have them also but as far as colors go I am a dummy. Actually never really cared. I have been disappointed I never have gotten a Silver or another Blue from the hatching that has occurred here. But @Pyxis is a good one for color genetics hopefully she will reply.

 

[Papaye]

Hello!

Thank you!
I would like to see your ducks...?

I hope somebody could enlighten me about genetics...
I know some things, but I am no expert...

I would like some brown, so I hope my Light Dusky ducks CAN birth brown ducklings...

When my light dusky ducklings were small, I believed they would be brown : they were ALL brown, even the feet...! So cute...

Here, a picture :

They are BROWN, right...?
So, I was so surprised when their first feathers came in DUSKY pattern!

Picture :

(I would so like some real brown...)

I don't know if Light Dusky is a common colour on runners...? I don't find a lot of pictures...

 

[Pyxis]

1 - Are my black bibbed ALL born from my trout drake's seeds?

I KNOW "Trout X Black" makes "Black Bibbed"... and since the ducklings have more white spots than their mother, I am pretty sure my trout drake is their father...
But I am no expert about genetics, and I wonder if there is a minor possibility my white drake could be their father...?

The white drake has the possibility of being the father, because, without test breeding, there's no way to tell what color genetics he's carrying aside from white. He may well have black genetics. You'd have to separate him out and do a test breeding to know.

2 - WHO is my light dusky's father?

Since the mother is a light dusky... is the white drake the father?
Because, I don't know... could a "Trout drake X Light Dusky duck" give pure "Light Dusky offspring"...? Should they not have some default in the colouring, with a trout father...?

Does light dusky mean light phase mallard plus dusky? If yes, then again, it really could be either drake, as there is no way to know what's going on with the white drake. The trout drake COULD be carrying dusky, so he also could be the father.

3 - How did I get a faulted trout duckling?

My faulted trout was born an ordinary trout duckling...
Her father is my trout drake, obviously... but her mother?
I don't think her mother is my black duck, since "Trout X Black" = "Black Bibbed"... but is it a 100 percent certainty?
...Otherwise, her mother would surely be my light dusky duck... and if so : could I ever have a chance to get PURE trout babies with my trout drake and my light dusky duck...?

When you say faulted trout, what is the fault? Sorry, different countries have different color names, lol, so I can't be sure what the fault is that you're looking to get rid of, haha.

As to if black bred to trout gives all black bibbed, if you're certain she's homozygous for black, yes.

4 - How can I get rid of the bib?

I think I read somewhere I could get rid of my blacks' bibs if their ducklings get TWO dusky alleles...?
So... could I get some PURE black ducklings from my trout drake and my black (bibbed) adult duck...?

Or... would it be possible to have them by breeding one of my black duckling (the young drake - son of the trout drake) with a light dusky duck...?

Correct, two dusky alleles should remove the bib. Your hen might have some spots of white because she's getting older - black ducks turn white as they age - or she might not be homozygous for dusky. Trout, if it's the trout I think you're meaning (again, different countries have different color names, so it makes it hard sometimes) does not have dusky genetics.

But he might be carrying dusky, or your white drake might be carrying dusky - one of them at least does, since you got a light dusky duckling. So if you bred whichever one is to the hen, then you could get pure black ducklings.

Or, again if you think she's homozygous for dusky, breed one of her sons back to her. Half the resulting ducklings would be dusky, and thus have no bibs if they are black.

The light dusky colour... the seller told me it was called "Brun Sauvage" in my country, and that I could get "Mallard" and "Brown" ducklings...
Is it true?

"Mallard" is probably what we here would call Gray. Brown, I don't know. If light dusky means light phase dusky, which is what I've taken it to mean, and what it looks like she could be by pictures, then you could only get those colors by breeding her to certain drakes.

The brown, though, makes me wonder if she's also chocolate. Doesn't mean much for first generation breedings though, since she could only pass one copy to her sons.

 

[Papaye]

Hi!

Thank you very much for your answer!

So... my four adult runners were sold to me by a professionnal. He shows his birds at exhibitions, and works to improve the breeds he owns.

Thus, I am pretty sure my white drake has pure white parents.
But for the colours genetics... I don't know what he can have?
He did give me white ducklings, but also some ducklings growing in white adult with one or two gray/blue feathers... (I don't have them anymore, and I did not take pictures...)

My black duck, her, has probably pure black parents...?
Her white spots are not because of age : she always had them. I think it is a small default - maybe from an old bib gene -, but I can be wrong...
She is too young to turn white : she is only one year and a half old.

(All my ducks are young. They were very hard to find : I had searched for them for years...!)

The "light dusky" colour is : DUSKY pattern, LIGHT phase.
Genotype : md/md, li/li, (homozygous, pure)
Source : https://www.duskyfeatherswaterfowl.com/dusky-pattern

And the "mallard" colour IS the "gray" colour. Yes.
See here : https://runnerduck.net/standard-colours.php

The "trout" colour is a lighter "gray" colour, but only on the duck : trout or mallard, the drake are the same colour.

And "faulted trout" is "trout" colour, but with default.
Somebody already made a thread : https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/new-name-needed-for-a-duck-color.1082976/

Look at my female (faulted) trout's wings :

See this white just above the blue speculum?
That is a default.

And look at her throat :

Too much white, right?

She is not a trout duck. She is a FAULTED trout.
(I think she is cuter than the pure trout ducks...!)

(An other trout duckling was born from my eggs... a drake, but ALSO a faulted trout.)

...Thank you again!

 

[Miss Lydia]

These 2 are drakes[solid blacks] hatched June 2023 next is [sorry I cannot get them in order. Pearl my only silver she hatched 2016
All my blks and my one blue are going white all hatched in April 2016. None show quality but oh do I love them. Then this boy is from a Blk drake over a fawn and white.This is the mama. I ordered 4 Fawn and White girls from Metzers they hatched 9-11-2023 Of course we over do when showing off our ducks just can't help it lol

 

[Papaye]

Wooooow...!! They are so pretty!!

The fawn and white are cute!
I would like to find some in France, but that's hard.

"Fawn and White x Black" = "Lilac"...? "Lavender"?
How do people call this colour?

Honestly, I think duck turning white are so beautiful... They are pleasing to the eyes.

Thank your for the pictures!
You are right to be proud.

 

[Miss Lydia]

I have no idea what that color would be called but it is a pretty color. I would love some of each color I love the one your calling trout I haven't seen that over here in the US.
I have a feeling if these girls make it another few years they will be close to solid white. I like the changes too. They will be 8 next April