Black Ameraucana or EE?

cluckingheck

Songster
Jun 15, 2020
785
1,590
171
West Virginia
Yeah, I know, it’s one of these questions again. I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I’m just wanting to be sure ( or grab onto the slimmest bit of hope ). Bought as a black ameraucana pullet along with another, but the cockerel has red leakage. I’d assume that would immediately mark him as an EE, right? Anyways, I’m not sure if they’re siblings. Never thought to ask the breeder that. I’m attaching pictures of both of them, but mostly of the pullet, Daria. Should be almost 29 weeks old now, but no eggs yet. Could they’ve been a little younger than previously thought?
 

Attachments

  • B9F3F16C-7C0F-489D-BED9-94B5E8F07B0D.jpeg
    B9F3F16C-7C0F-489D-BED9-94B5E8F07B0D.jpeg
    639.1 KB · Views: 13
  • F61741DE-65FD-4859-B979-1CFA5C22F4AF.jpeg
    F61741DE-65FD-4859-B979-1CFA5C22F4AF.jpeg
    702.7 KB · Views: 13
  • E60B1ABD-C561-4E0E-87E5-5109FE5027E4.jpeg
    E60B1ABD-C561-4E0E-87E5-5109FE5027E4.jpeg
    843.3 KB · Views: 13
  • AE542B58-7336-4797-9002-D14F9E9EE6FD.jpeg
    AE542B58-7336-4797-9002-D14F9E9EE6FD.jpeg
    849.1 KB · Views: 12
  • 5E859DA8-FB37-4A29-80A0-3E67EDE32F98.jpeg
    5E859DA8-FB37-4A29-80A0-3E67EDE32F98.jpeg
    858.5 KB · Views: 13
  • E14A3BA9-7005-4281-826F-DC326F7DD445.jpeg
    E14A3BA9-7005-4281-826F-DC326F7DD445.jpeg
    683.1 KB · Views: 13
  • 9A860D91-8326-4DEB-ABBC-EEA2B5901D91.jpeg
    9A860D91-8326-4DEB-ABBC-EEA2B5901D91.jpeg
    530.7 KB · Views: 11
Last edited:

cluckingheck

Songster
Jun 15, 2020
785
1,590
171
West Virginia
I don't see yellow legs and I think that's the main difference. Though I'm not sure about the male's leakage. All that tells me is that he could have different colors in his background. Even someone with pures that had bad breeding practices could make a pure Amerucana with leakage
oh man, that is a good thing, in a way? But it still sounds like it’s up in the air lol. I suppose the only way to be 100% sure was to do a genetic test, but that’d probably be expensive.
 

cluckingheck

Songster
Jun 15, 2020
785
1,590
171
West Virginia
As far as I know, those tests don't exist now. It's just a DNA test for gender
oh, i didn't know that. huh, learn something new every day. is there any reason why you can get a dna test to find out the gender, but not to figure out what possible breed(s) they are? is it an easy vs. difficult kind of thing? thinking about it more, it does seem kind of complex
 

Allthefloofs

Songster
Sep 16, 2020
581
1,411
206
Scottsdale, AZ
oh, i didn't know that. huh, learn something new every day. is there any reason why you can get a dna test to find out the gender, but not to figure out what possible breed(s) they are? is it an easy vs. difficult kind of thing? thinking about it more, it does seem kind of complex
Testing for gender involves two different genes, kinda like human's XX XY, testing for gender is going to be the same across all chickens. Testing for breed isn't so simple, that is like testing for a 1000 piece puzzle vs. a 2 piece puzzle. Having done lots of PCR genetic testing on something as simple as bacteria, it's really complicated to decode the genome of every breed of chicken and find unique sequences that specifically exist in every individual of that particular breed. One would have to have a very large number of individuals to cross reference, then there is primer development for each breed...I think you can see the beginnings of the complexity. It's pretty interesting, and would be awesome if they could do it easily and cheaply though.
This site has some basic info on genetic sexing. I had some birds sexed with them: https://iqbirdtesting.com
 

EggSighted4Life

Crossing the Road
Apr 9, 2016
14,197
19,394
822
California's Redwood Coast
Bought as a black ameraucana pullet along with another, but the cockerel has red leakage. I’d assume that would immediately mark him as an EE, right? Anyways, I’m not sure if they’re siblings. Never thought to ask the ‘breeder’
If sold as a black Ameraucana.. then probably just undesirable leakage.

As state by the first poster.. even when parent stock are selected well, things can happen.. like accidental cross of varieties somewhere in the past lineage (maybe red brown or wheaten).. might have good black phenotype offspring but hiding other color.. eventually leaking out like this.

I also see white skin not yellow.. seen easiest on bottom of feet.. which is ONE indicator that it may be purebred Ameraucana.. with leakage.

Comb, beard, muffs, clean legs, 4 toes, sold under its' color variety, it all adds up to looks like Ameraucana to me.

oh man, that is a good thing, in a way? But it still sounds like it’s up in the air lol. I suppose the only way to be 100% sure was to do a genetic test, but that’d probably be expensive.
It's totally a good thing if you'd like to hatch some chicks. Especially if you are able to SELECT the best cockerel from the hatched (and grown out) ones and move this one on to other purposes.. Ameraucana dress fine for the table even if it isn't their main quality.

As an obsessive type person.. I consider only 1-3% of all birds to be true breeding quality.. That's only 3 out of every 100! I usually have to settle for the top 10% with my low hatching numbers as I don't have the resources or space for excess numbers...

But, with all that I know and understand about breeding chickens (including some Ameraucana).. which is just enough to scratch the surface and have a little fun.. there's no need for genetic testing.. that my chicken friend is black Ameraucana with leakage and not an Easter Egger, IMO.

http://ameraucana.org/Ameraucana Standard

Some folks would say don't waste your time breeding with that leakage just get yourself a better specimen. Others say work with what ya got and go for it.

It will pop up and haunt you several generations down the line, if you work with it.. you will have a lot of birds for freezer camp or pet/layer but not show/breeding quality. With more rare breeds.. sometimes you must work with what ya got. And otherwise it's just an adventure... If you WANT to get more.. to broaden your gene pool and possibly replace him (others might have other faults not sure which traits are worth how many points).. they are offered by several hatcheries these days.. Cackle, MPC, and more.. Having a good quality rooster is key.. because his traits are having the largest impact on offspring outcome!

Hope this helps, they are lovely! :love

One huge thing regarding egg color.. Ameraucana standard of perfection recognizes a BROAD range of shades of blue including (less desirable) green. From google images..
1606512528511.png
 

cluckingheck

Songster
Jun 15, 2020
785
1,590
171
West Virginia
If sold as a black Ameraucana.. then probably just undesirable leakage.

As state by the first poster.. even when parent stock are selected well, things can happen.. like accidental cross of varieties somewhere in the past lineage (maybe red brown or wheaten).. might have good black phenotype offspring but hiding other color.. eventually leaking out like this.

I also see white skin not yellow.. seen easiest on bottom of feet.. which is ONE indicator that it may be purebred Ameraucana.. with leakage.

Comb, beard, muffs, clean legs, 4 toes, sold under its' color variety, it all adds up to looks like Ameraucana to me.


It's totally a good thing if you'd like to hatch some chicks. Especially if you are able to SELECT the best cockerel from the hatched (and grown out) ones and move this one on to other purposes.. Ameraucana dress fine for the table even if it isn't their main quality.

As an obsessive type person.. I consider only 1-3% of all birds to be true breeding quality.. That's only 3 out of every 100! I usually have to settle for the top 10% with my low hatching numbers as I don't have the resources or space for excess numbers...

But, with all that I know and understand about breeding chickens (including some Ameraucana).. which is just enough to scratch the surface and have a little fun.. there's no need for genetic testing.. that my chicken friend is black Ameraucana with leakage and not an Easter Egger, IMO.

http://ameraucana.org/Ameraucana Standard

Some folks would say don't waste your time breeding with that leakage just get yourself a better specimen. Others say work with what ya got and go for it.

It will pop up and haunt you several generations down the line, if you work with it.. you will have a lot of birds for freezer camp or pet/layer but not show/breeding quality. With more rare breeds.. sometimes you must work with what ya got. And otherwise it's just an adventure... If you WANT to get more.. to broaden your gene pool and possibly replace him (others might have other faults not sure which traits are worth how many points).. they are offered by several hatcheries these days.. Cackle, MPC, and more.. Having a good quality rooster is key.. because his traits are having the largest impact on offspring outcome!

Hope this helps, they are lovely! :love

One huge thing regarding egg color.. Ameraucana standard of perfection recognizes a BROAD range of shades of blue including (less desirable) green. From google images..
View attachment 2427529
Oh, wow, thank you for going in such depth with this. My response isn’t going to be as long, but I will say his leakage doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve just started getting into raising chickens and showing them is not something I’m tempted to do. I’ve shown pigs on an amateur level ( 4-H - FFA ) for 10+ years and it kind of ended on a sour note? Too much drama, to keep it simple.

It’s more of a hobby with the perk of free eggs, selling eggs and maybe selling some chicks or hatching eggs if I want to bother with that too. Most of my chickens are crosses, so I guess its nice to know I do have a pure-bred breeding pair. Not sure if I’d sell their chicks, though, because of his leakage. Unless I have some kind of disclaimer lol. Getting rid of him just because of his leakage is not something I’ll do, but I might try to find another male that doesn’t have the leakage at some point.

The only real specific breeding thing I want to do with them is actually Daria, the pullet. I was wanting to breed her with my barred rock cockerel in the spring ( if she starts laying by then ), so I can get barred offspring that has the beards & earmuffs. I was told that was possible, but I guess we’ll see. I’m still patiently waiting to see a blue egg among my dark brown, light brown & white eggs.
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Top Bottom