Black Australorp died unexpectedly please help me understand why

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry for your loss.

As for necropsy, a good sharp knife can definitely open the abdominal cavity, so you can take a look inside.

I understand it's a hard thing to do, especially when you care so deeply for them. I do my own and certainly am no expert, but have also learned some things along the way by examining the internals.


If you wish to try, post some photos, we'll try to help you with what you see.

 

[Bawkbok]

Oh man. I'm so sorry! I know this must have been devastating for you. Thank you for sharing. The educators will have good advice, I'm sure, but I just wanted to say it sounds like you acted as fast as possible and were more prepared than most in recognizing what she needed in her distress. What a stressful year for you!

Thank you for your kind words, Wingit. My heart is truly shredded and I've been crying for four days now. I don't feel I reacted correctly and probably made matters worse but I don't have a clue as to what I should have done differently. Hoping I have a sense of enlightenment for the next catastrophe, whenever it occurs.

 

[Bawkbok]

I'm sorry for your loss. You handled the situation the best you could, please don't beat yourself up over the what-ifs.

Soaking is stressful for hens and isn't something that is recommended when they are already in distress. I would not have tried to soak her as she was in crisis already when you found her, but I do not think in this case the outcome would have been different if you're hadn't soaked.

Prolapse is frustrating because it is often difficult to get them to stay in. It's usually something that takes time (sometimes days) to correct. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong with that, it's not your fault that you couldn't get it to stay in.

I wouldn't have thought about giving calcium when she started laying. Two days between eggs is a normal amount of time and not something that would have alarmed me. Especially with a pullet just coming into lay. Nothing you've described would have made me suspicious of her being eggbound or of any impending problems.

As for the oyster shell, it's always possible she had been eating some when you weren't looking. I never really see my girls eating it, but I do see the level in the feeder go down. Also, I didn't see if you mentioned what kind of feed you're feeding, but if you use a layer feed she may not have felt the need for additional calcium.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and expertise. As I was soaking her I actually recalled reading here that a soak was stressful on a stressed bird but it was too late at that point. I will remember that in the future.

I thought about a calcium tablet at the time, but didn't think she'd be able to swallow it given she couldn't hold her head up and being so weak, so I opted for the sugar water infusion instead.

They are on Kalmbach 20% all flock with grit and OS on the side. They ONLY snack they get is Kalmbach Henhouse reserve scratch, only to return them to the run as needed and only sometimes, not every time. Never more than one tablespoon that they would all race each other to consume. They occasionally, maybe once a week if they're lucky, get small amounts of plain boiled chicken, spinach leaves and diced apple as a special treat. Otherwise, it's simply their feed.
I can't believe it happened so quickly. For her sake, I'm grateful it was quick.

 

[FunClucks]

So sorry you lost your hen. You might look up a phenomena called sudden chicken death. It's where their heart stops unexpectedly due to them trying to lay an egg. New layers are especially prone to it. We had an orpington who had been laying about two months, she laid a fairy egg one day (half-size egg with little/no yolk), and the next we found her dead in the coop. No explanation, no external wounds, nothing seemed wrong, no unexpected behaviors, just no warning. Not a darn thing we could do. And of course she was our favorite chicken.

All we can figure is she had a reproductive and/or heart issue, and there really was nothing we could do.

I think you should try to forgive yourself. Once she had such a bad prolapse, there was no fixing it. Even if you'd been a vet and had an operating room available immediately, I doubt you could have saved your hen.

After chickens die, they have electric impulses for about 30 seconds or so where they kick and flap, their hackle feathers poof out, and then relax and their necks go totally limp. When the feathers relax, you know they're gone. Also, when their pupils don't respond to a change in lighting (like a bright flashlight). If you hold your other girls, the feel of their heartbeats will be obvious, you can see where to hold them to feel it best. It's pretty easy to do. If you don't feel it, she's no longer alive.

So sorry you lost your hen. It was not at all your fault, and you did the absolute best you could to help her. She didn't die alone. If all hens had chicken keepers like you, their lives would be incredibly awesome. All the chickens you have are blessed by your love and diligence.

Chickens die. They just do. Even when we do our best, it can be so hard to keep them alive. Enjoy your remaining hens and your new ladies once they come home with you.

 

[Bawkbok]

So sorry you lost your hen. You might look up a phenomena called sudden chicken death. It's where their heart stops unexpectedly due to them trying to lay an egg. New layers are especially prone to it. We had an orpington who had been laying about two months, she laid a fairy egg one day (half-size egg with little/no yolk), and the next we found her dead in the coop. No explanation, no external wounds, nothing seemed wrong, no unexpected behaviors, just no warning. Not a darn thing we could do. And of course she was our favorite chicken.

All we can figure is she had a reproductive and/or heart issue, and there really was nothing we could do.

I think you should try to forgive yourself. Once she had such a bad prolapse, there was no fixing it. Even if you'd been a vet and had an operating room available immediately, I doubt you could have saved your hen.

After chickens die, they have electric impulses for about 30 seconds or so where they kick and flap, their hackle feathers poof out, and then relax and their necks go totally limp. When the feathers relax, you know they're gone. Also, when their pupils don't respond to a change in lighting (like a bright flashlight). If you hold your other girls, the feel of their heartbeats will be obvious, you can see where to hold them to feel it best. It's pretty easy to do. If you don't feel it, she's no longer alive.

So sorry you lost your hen. It was not at all your fault, and you did the absolute best you could to help her. She didn't die alone. If all hens had chicken keepers like you, their lives would be incredibly awesome. All the chickens you have are blessed by your love and diligence.

Chickens die. They just do. Even when we do our best, it can be so hard to keep them alive. Enjoy your remaining hens and your new ladies once they come home with you.

Good grief! I'm sorry that happened to your Orpington. Now I'm paranoid about ours.
I will research the sudden chicken death syndrome, I had not heard of that before.
I appreciate the description of the last moments of life. I now know I was definitely administering to a dead chicken.
I did put a flashlight on her eye, off and then on again to look for pupil movement, but their eyes are so darn big and dark and beautiful, I couldn't even discern her pupil when she was alive and well. Her eyes were like looking into a deep warm pool or darkness.
My husband came home from work to find me on the bathroom floor working with her - only after one half second of seeing her, he said "baby, she's gone". At least she didn't die in the run with the others only to be found later. Grateful I had her in my arms.
With each lesson we learn. Onward we go.

 

[Bawkbok]

First, I'm very sorry for your loss of Luna, especially in those circumstances. It's always sad loosing a beloved hen but a young pullet just starting to lay, like this, is especially hard. I've experienced like many chicken keepers the feeling of helplessness and guilt that you may be going through. It's important to be responsible, and to try doing better, but we also to have to acknowledge that sometimes there is nothing we could have done even knowing more.

I'm by no means an expert on prolapses but I kept ex-batt's for four years and a half so I've had some experience with reproductive issues. Here is my answers to your questions. And no questions are stupid, by the way. You'll see that we won't all answer exactly in the same way. It's always necessary to question things you read on the web about chickens, unless they actually come from a veterinary website (and even then).

The most likely explanation is that the prolapse killed her.m, not the bath. But I would also refrain from soaking or bathing a hen in great distress unless she was used to it and you know she enjoys baths. I know that is an advice often given for egg bound chickens because the heat is supposed to make their muscles relax and push out the egg. But many chickens hate baths and will actually stress from them. If it's really cold outside, I would eventually put a warm bag near them, but even that can be a stress.

I personally don't think calcium would make a difference. I know the usual advice is to give human calcium citrate pills in case of trouble laying or actual egg binding. I've done that religiously for years since my first ex-batt was egg bound. I still do it now for one of my hen. It has never, ever, made a difference or actually helped a hen pass an egg, even when I gave huge amounts. I don't believe calcium deficiency would have caused such a sudden issue. Hens are able to take calcium from their bodies to make eggs especially when they are young ; the deficiency will show itself gradually through weaker shells.

That said, my ex-batt's never took to eating crushed egg shell or crushed oyster shell. All my other hens do. As long as I had my ex-batt's for this reason I made sure layer feed was always available in one of the feeders on top of the fermented grains and chick crumble mash I feed my chickens.

I would answer no for the reason I explained above.

I have only seen two prolapse and got them back in because they were just beginning. From what I have read, but have not experienced myself, here is my thought. An advanced prolapse is a veterinary emergency. It doesn't hurt to try to get it back in because otherwise the chicken will die anyway ; but the chances of success are slim.

Temperature extreme could be lethal ; I'm not sure it could happen in the way of a prolapse. Extreme heat does impact laying, that I know. I would get a thermometer and check the temperature in the run compared Tou outside. You possibly may need to prepare more cooling measure if you get another heat wave !

The eyes can remain open in death. Often while the chicken dies it will thrash around like it has a seizure - I believe this is due to the nerves. There can still be movement after the chicken has actually died, and I've read it can last for a few minutes, although the chickens I've seen dying stopped seizing after 30 seconds to a minute. Liquid may come out of it's mouth and vent, and sometimes feathers may fall. I check for breathing ; I am not sure about using a stethoscope, as I've never done it.

One last thing I want to say. One of the possible cause of prolapse is an egg too big, and that is an issue one reads about with Australorps. Again, this is something I read but can not vouch for ; but I think it's a possibility, as hens that are just beginning to lay can lay eggs that are very small, which is the most common, but also huge. It was the case with my hen Vanille who laid huge eggs her first month, had reproductive issues all her life, and died from being eggbound before turning three.

I hope you will get more helpful answers, and gradually cope with the loss of your Luna.

Thank you so much for your detailed response. It helps me understand. I have never watched a chicken die before - previous ones were euthanasia via vet or found in the coop on first light - that said, I know I was holding her during her death throes based on your and others' explanations of the seizure like activity. I thought she was just fighting being held as she hated to be touched, but now I know it was her exit.
I've spent time holding the other two hens today and can now find the heartbeat quickly.
All responses here have been helpful and informative. I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you

 

[ManueB]

Thank you so much for your detailed response. It helps me understand. I have never watched a chicken die before - previous ones were euthanasia via vet or found in the coop on first light - that said, I know I was holding her during her death throes based on your and others' explanations of the seizure like activity. I thought she was just fighting being held as she hated to be touched, but now I know it was her exit.
I've spent time holding the other two hens today and can now find the heartbeat quickly.
All responses here have been helpful and informative. I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you.

The first deaths in my flock were extremely painful for me and without the support and explanations I found on BYC, it might have been too much to go on with keeping chickens. In my "real" life no one would understand feeling sad about a chicken dying.

I don't want to say it will get better, because I don't feel that's true. But after a while you will know more what to expect. As you learn how you react to death, and that sometimes it's unavoidable, it doesn't take you by surprise anymore.

Her eyes were like looking into a deep warm pool or darkness.

I was totally drawn to Australorps when I first saw pictures of them precisely because of those eyes.
Australorps are very uncommon here, so instead I got many black barnyard mixes chickens of various kind. Only one has those deep black beautiful eyes that I think of when I hear Australorps.

 

[Bawkbok]

Morning all, I have a new related? problem. The Orpington is behaving in a way I've never seen / heard before. For about 7 hours yesterday she started this extremely loud yell / cry that sounded something like this:
bawk bawk bawk BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK bawk bawk bawk BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK, bawk bawk bawk BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK

She barely stopped to intake breath and then started all over again, repeat, repeat, repeat. She did this for hours. I let them out to free range and she acted normal. Back in the run, she started yelling all over again until roost time.

The first time I heard it, I ran to the window and saw her flying around the run and she smashed into the 'wall' which is an open air run. I ran out to inspect her for injury. She now has wonky feathers on her left wing and chest area but otherwise seems uninjured. I placed her in my lap and sat there with her like that for over a half hour. She continued to BAWK BAWK BAWK in my lap but made no effort to leave. I don't understand this behavior. Is it grief reaction to the loss of Luna? Luna and Opal (the BO) were shipped together almost six months ago. I now understand that Luna was the leader, I thought she was the underling but I had that wrong. She was the glue that held the tiny flock together. Both the girls seem despondent and I don't know how to console them. Opal's vocals are new. She has never acted this way the entire time we've had her. I don't know what to do. I will spend more time with them but I can't sit in the run all day, not that my presence is any consolation. Is there anything I can I give her to calm her down over the next few days?

I used to know how to edit / update an original post, but for the life of me now I can't figure it out. My pistons are not all firing properly.

Any help or insight is appreciated. Thank you all for your support. I would be lost without the BYC community.

@ManueB @FunClucks @Wyorp Rock @OrpingtonManiac @Eggcessive @AinaWGSD @WingItRanch

 

[Turd bird]

Good God almighty I'm so sorry for your loss

 

[FunClucks]

Morning all, I have a new related? problem. The Orpington is behaving in a way I've never seen / heard before. For about 7 hours yesterday she started this extremely loud yell / cry that sounded something like this:
bawk bawk bawk BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK bawk bawk bawk BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK, bawk bawk bawk BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK

She barely stopped to intake breath and then started all over again, repeat, repeat, repeat. She did this for hours. I let them out to free range and she acted normal. Back in the run, she started yelling all over again until roost time.

The first time I heard it, I ran to the window and saw her flying around the run and she smashed into the 'wall' which is an open air run. I ran out to inspect her for injury. She now has wonky feathers on her left wing and chest area but otherwise seems uninjured. I placed her in my lap and sat there with her like that for over a half hour. She continued to BAWK BAWK BAWK in my lap but made no effort to leave. I don't understand this behavior. Is it grief reaction to the loss of Luna? Luna and Opal (the BO) were shipped together almost six months ago. I now understand that Luna was the leader, I thought she was the underling but I had that wrong. She was the glue that held the tiny flock together. Both the girls seem despondent and I don't know how to console them. Opal's vocals are new. She has never acted this way the entire time we've had her. I don't know what to do. I will spend more time with them but I can't sit in the run all day, not that my presence is any consolation. Is there anything I can I give her to calm her down over the next few days?

I used to know how to edit / update an original post, but for the life of me now I can't figure it out. My pistons are not all firing properly.

Any help or insight is appreciated. Thank you all for your support. I would be lost without the BYC community.

@ManueB @FunClucks @Wyorp Rock @OrpingtonManiac @Eggcessive @AinaWGSD @WingItRanch

Does she seem more agitated than normal? Does she fluff her feathers out while she walks around? Does she want to hang out in one secluded spot, or in a nest box? What you describe sounds to me like she might be going broody. I'd look up what that looks like on here - there are posts and you could probably find some good videos about it. If she's in the preliminary broody stage, very loud and talking a lot fits. Broody hens get pissy, for lack of a better word, and they look like fat flat pancakes once they've picked a "nest". Irritated, easily ticked off by other hens, telling the world they're the best, etc. They eventually pick a spot to brood on, and refuse to leave it. Most of the time there's eggs in the spot, sometimes there aren't (for the really cracked in the head hens). Some hens will brood on a rock or nothing at all.

You can either let them sit and raise chicks or try to break them - there's a good article on here ( https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/broody-breaking-ala-aart.77915/ ).

They may break on their own after a while. Most folks let them be dedicated for a few weeks before giving them eggs or chicks. Remove all eggs under her every day until it's time for her to sit. Eggs that are warm for 2-3 days start to incubate. You don't have a rooster, so this may not be as big of a deal - the eggs are fine to eat. Hens go broody without a roo present to actually make the eggs fertile all the time. After at least 3 weeks of dedicated brooding, you can slip fertile eggs or day-old chicks under her from the feedstore if you want to. Feedstore chicks are 3 days old at least, while she's supposed to start with chicks that are 0 days old, so get the youngest ones possible from the feedstore, and keep an eye out for the first day or so to make sure she's taking them to eat and drink (normally the hen waits 3 days once the first chick hatches for the others to hatch before she takes everyone to eat and drink, so if you do this make sure there's no eggs under her when you sneak the chicks under her). If you get chicks from the feedstore, get them home, make sure they have a few hours to settle down, eat and drink, and be warm (you'll need a heat lamp) and then most folks wait till just after dark and sneak the day old chicks under the broody hen. Keep an eye out to make sure she accepts them and doesn't attack them, and takes them to eat and drink the next day.

I put chicks under my broody in the middle of the day, and she accepted them immediately even knowing they came out of the house in my hand, and didn't hatch under her. She was that desperate to own all the chicks. But I have an awesome broody.

If this doesn't describe your hen's behavior, I'm not sure what to tell you. She could be agitated by a predator you haven't seen yet. She could have an illness. But loud annoying bawking all the time is often an indication of impending broodiness. There's a certain type of bawking they do when broody. If you find some videos you might could compare the sound to what your hen is doing - it's quite distinctive.