Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[snowbird]

Is this darker egg a maran egg?i think I need to pen my two up sperate from the rest to see if these are theirs? They are seven months old now.

None of these eggs would qualify on the Marans chart to be Marans. Don

 

[Pennychickens1]

Ok so maybe it a different hen this weekend I will be sure and move them to be sure.

 

[ZoiChick]

Ok so maybe it a different hen this weekend I will be sure and move them to be sure.

The egg may well have been FROM your Marans pullet. Snowbird was just saying it was not dark enough to be considered a Marans egg, They have to be at least a 4 on the scale There are minimum standards. Maybe her second egg will be darker. Fingers crossed

 

[Pennychickens1]

Thank you I hope so

 

[johnderosa1]

I am saving my copper maran eggs for the incubator.

Today it suddenly crossed my mind that maybe I should be hatching the copper maran x ameraucana eggs.

Anyone ever done that? What color eggs would the offspring produce? Would it be worthwhile to do this?

Yes these are called olive eggers and the eggs can be light olive to a really dark olive color based on the genetics of the marans.

 

[FVRM]

I am saving my copper maran eggs for the incubator.

Today it suddenly crossed my mind that maybe I should be hatching the copper maran x ameraucana eggs.

Anyone ever done that? What color eggs would the offspring produce? Would it be worthwhile to do this?

Yes these are called olive eggers and the eggs can be light olive to a really dark olive color based on the genetics of the marans.

Everyone is calling them Olivers now lol

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

The egg may well have been FROM your Marans pullet. Snowbird was just saying it was not dark enough to be considered a Marans egg, They have to be at least a 4 on the scale There are minimum standards. Maybe her second egg will be darker. Fingers crossed

Actually, the SOP doesn't mention any minimum shade of brown to be considered a Marans, does it? It may be generally accepted, but as far as the Standard is concerned I don't think it's in there.

 

[snaffle]

None of these eggs would qualify on the Marans chart to be Marans. Don

Don could you post a link to a chart that shows proper color for maran eggs? Is it normal for the maran eggs to be extra dark early in the season and lighten after a few months to a Red Star brown?

 

[GaryDean26]

Actually, the SOP doesn't mention any minimum shade of brown to be considered a Marans, does it? It may be generally accepted, but as far as the Standard is concerned I don't think it's in there.

Breed standards are set up for one day evaluations at poultry shows. Judges can not judge the egg color of every hen or any of the cockerels or cock so egg color is not part of the APA format for a breed standard. Egg color is not in the standard because everything written in the standard has to be judged at show. Egg color is often listed in the economic values section but is usually left to the breed specific clubs to a address and is very much a part of what makes a breed. If it doesn't lay a white egg, it isn't a Leghorn. If it doesn't lay a tan egg it isn't a Rhode Island Red. It is doesn't lay a blue/green egg is isn't an Auracana, and it if it doesn't lay an "extra red egg" that is defined as a #4 of high on the Marans scale, then it isn't a Marans.

In the USA the Marans Club follow the French Standard and the section on the Marans egg of the Marans Club du France webpage clearly states that less that a #4 egg does NOT meet the Marans Standard (See Quote below and then real the whole section on the Marans egg where they go into more detail).

Note: You could cross a Wheaten Marans cockerel with a Cuckoo Marans hens and get pullets that look like Black Copper Marans. They may fit the color standard and if entered into a Poultry show may even win a prize because a judge only can judge what is in front of them and can't tell you if the bird is pure or not, but the pullet do not breed true and are NOT a Black Coppers so they have not value as anything but project birds. If a Marans hen can't lay a minimum of a No. 4 Egg she likewise has no value as anything but a project bird because like the Cuckoo/Wheaten mixed pullets she is not breeding true for the breeds ideals and requires work to get back to what is acceptable for the Marans.

Don could you post a link to a chart that shows proper color for maran eggs? Is it normal for the maran eggs to be extra dark early in the season and lighten after a few months to a Red Star brown?

If you follow the link to the quote above it discussed the fading of eggs from the beginning of the season. It says that hens have their eggs fade too much should not be breed and suggest evaluating eggs in the middle of the summer so that you can see which hens are holding color the best through their laying cycle.

 

[ZoiChick]

 
Actually, the SOP doesn't mention any minimum shade of brown to be considered a Marans, does it?  It may be generally accepted, but as far as the Standard is concerned I don't think it's in there.

Breed standards are set up for one day evaluations at poultry shows.  Judges can not judge the egg color of every hen or any of the cockerels or cock so egg color is not part of the APA format for a breed standard.  Egg color is not in the standard because everything written in the standard has to be judged at show.  Egg color is often listed in the economic values section but is usually left to the breed specific clubs to a address and is very much a part of what makes a breed.  If it doesn't lay a white egg, it isn't a Leghorn.  If it doesn't lay a tan egg it isn't a Rhode Island Red. It is doesn't lay a blue/green egg is isn't an Auracana, and it if it doesn't lay an "extra red egg" that is defined as a #4 of high on the Marans scale, then it isn't a Marans.  

In the USA the Marans Club follow the French Standard and the section on the Marans egg of the Marans Club du France webpage clearly states that less that a #4 egg does NOT meet the Marans Standard (See Quote below and then real the whole section on the Marans egg where they go into more detail).

Note:  You could cross a Wheaten Marans cockerel with a Cuckoo Marans hens and get pullets that look like Black Copper Marans.  They may fit the color standard and if entered into a Poultry show may even win a prize because a judge only can judge what is in front of them and can't tell you if the bird is pure or not, but the pullet do not breed true and are NOT a Black Coppers so they have not value as anything but project birds.  If a Marans hen can't lay a minimum of a No. 4 Egg she likewise has no value as anything but a project bird because like the Cuckoo/Wheaten mixed pullets she is not breeding true for the breeds ideals and requires work to get back to what is acceptable for the Marans.  

 
[COLOR=800000]LEGEND:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Level [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]1 [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]- [/COLOR][COLOR=0000A0]Egg white:[/COLOR][COLOR=800000] Example: Bresse-Gallic or Leghorn, Braeckel foreign races. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Level [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]2 [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]- [/COLOR][COLOR=0000A0]Tinted egg:[/COLOR][COLOR=800000] incorrectly referred to as "brown" in most standard foreign breeds such as Rhode Island. It is also the color of the eggs many industrial hybrid strains, never those of a true Marans.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Level [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]3 [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]- [/COLOR][COLOR=0000A0]Red Egg:[/COLOR][COLOR=800000] it is a poorly selected egg, insufficient color when usual in the strain without showing occasional superior specimens.[/COLOR][COLOR=0000FF] This shade does not allow the use of the name "Marans".[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Level [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]4 [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]- [/COLOR][COLOR=FF0000]The extra red egg of MARANS [COLOR=800000]but at a still insufficient, especially varieties NCC, NCA, BCC, BCA, all belonging to the ER gene family.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]            Note: the background color is not better than the egg No. 3, but the amount of pigment is more important, its distribution has been uneven in spots, which gives a minimum factor and genetic capabilities related to the egg called "roux extra". A minimum brightness always come develop it.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Experience: Minimum 4 egg when it is placed on a natural red earthenware bottom should come off in a tone a little darker on the bottom red shade "clay" or "brick".[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Note : [/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]If it is generally accepted and from the origins of the breed level 4 is the bare minimum to allow the name "Marans" - this is especially true for some few and selected varieties - the required minimum is level 5 6 or satin gloss, especially Noire variety camail copper. 

        The level 6 or 7 is fully compatible with the selection of a virtually ideal phenotype described in the official breed standard. This is a popular and recommended goal for all farmers by the MCF. A selection in one direction [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]and priority[/COLOR][COLOR=800000] by the egg, making it difficult selection to the phenotype. The reverse is also true. There is nothing inconsistent in theory. 

             Spawning insufficient colored eggs does not justify the name "Marans." 

             Similarly, subjects with ultra dark eggs 7, 8 or 9, but whose type is from the breed standard are not more of Marans.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]                                                        The true Marans is both respected official standard   +    laying very dark egg.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Levels [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]5-9 [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]- [/COLOR][COLOR=FF0000]Egg extra-red verging on chocolate [/COLOR][COLOR=FF0000].[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]            Note the more rounded, globular, typical of the Marans egg, brightness is always an extra quality. Stem laying eggs 7, 8 and 9 were unfortunately quite often suffered a lack of selection in favor of the standard: light or skimpy types squirrel tails, feathers and unclean colors etc ... The selection requires a very important job and long-term home since the Marans must reconcile as much a type and a specific standard with the requirement of an extra-red colors typical of the breed eggs, possibly the minimum level of 5 for current family varieties ER gene (NCC NCA, BCC, BCA).[/COLOR]
[COLOR=800000]Levels [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]8 and 9 [/COLOR][COLOR=800000]- [/COLOR][COLOR=FF0000]Exceptional eggs[/COLOR][COLOR=800000]  whose color is similar to the pure pigment. It must be recognized that, once again the most beautiful eggs are obtained at the start of laying. It is normal that the shells of pigments fade in full spawning, stabilizing at around 6 and 7 for the best. A good strain has a high proportion of eggs level 5-7 to continually maintain the state with a serious selection year after year.[/COLOR]

Gary Dean26 Thank you for such an informative post.