Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[snowbird]

Quote:
Wynette, when you check the wing, how about raising the hackle and see if there is white undercolor there. Don

 

[Wynette]

Alright, will do. I'll try to do it tonight & get pics of all - it will be good examples of what NOT to keep.

 

[math ace]

Quote:
I'm chicken

to question this change, so Geebsie would you share what you find out - - PLEASE

 

[HHandbasket]

We need to get a picture of Henrietta, a 16-week-old BCM we got just 2 weeks ago. She's such a love and SO pretty. When we pick her up, she shimmies up our arms and likes to sit on our shoulders and just kinda hang and groove there--so long as we don't move around TOO much LOL.

She has feathered legs, too. I didn't know they had feathered legs! As soon as I have a decent shot of her, I'll post it here.

 

[geebs]

I already got the answer.... It is slate over pink. Thanks MathAce. It's no big thing.. It just mean we have to balance more toward black... Corrections are still on both sides.

Your leggies and such just have to be darker..that darkens the whole balance so less flecking in the chest... The earcoverts will be brownish as opposed to matching the head etc... A little more mahogany in the wings as opposed to a more uniform copper color... it's all good... It means we can sure make use of those dark animals!!!! slate is grey... There used to be some room in the slate from light to dark... now it appears they like it toward the darker side...It's all good... Give me a crayon... I will fix it!!!

 

[math ace]

how old do the cockerels need to be BEFORE you judge ear covert color? I won't swear to it, but I think my 12 week olds have Black coverts. Will they lighten as they develope their saddle and hackle feathers or is it pretty much set by this point in time?

I don't think we answered all of village chicken's questions . . .

 

[geebs]

I personally don't judge the birds color until the 6-8 month... that is me... A picture might help... If you aren't too shy!!!

 

[math ace]

Quote:
I think we answered #2 and
as to question # 5 - - - I think geebs and Don could give you excellent feedback at any age. Don has a super sharp eye and Geebs has that check off list that covers EVERYthing!

 

[geebs]

villagechicken

I will give you my best answers about the melaniser.. It is my understanding that dark marans have dark eyes unless they are hiding another gene... this is the experience I have had.... I don't know what experiences others have had... I am no genetic expert but when there is white shanks on an otherwise black bird then I wonder if it isn't carrying the melonic inhibitor for the legs that is found in other colors...therefore making it a fouled gene in there... It would be interesting to see if others see this also...

US birds most certainly are different from male to female so it does not make sense to use the same set of criteria across the board.

e Yes you are right about the ID thing. The french shanks make the most sense to me.. I do like the look... the color I am referring to in the post is of course shank and not the feathering. As long as the US doesn't have a standard in place I will choose to breed toward the French standard as where the birds genetic makeup comes from. It is well written and comprehensive giving case and point. I find that it makes sense and culls the problems if we follow the map that has been laid down for us...I will probably be lynched by the masses here on BYC... But that is the way I see it. If one wants to breed to the proposed SOP... just go a little darker on things... You will likely have to make many more corrections though and the breeding strategy will be more complex...

Where does the Netherlands get its stock... from France originally and does the genetics of your stock bear any similarities to ours?? Your questions make me think that they do.

The skin is basically clear to smokey color with pink under it ... the degree of black in the bird colors the otherwise transparent skin.

Yes I believe that the rooster with the overmelanised ear coverts will darken an acceptable version.

On the eWh question... the jury is out...I believe wheaton is involved but do not know if it the sole explaination.

I am not sure what color that colorful rooster would throw...I would anticipate some kind of sport as a possibility... it kinda depends on the hen to is some cases I think.

There are so many genes that rule the egg color that I don't think we can definitively give a guideline for egg color loss and gain.. No it isn't 100 percent.. It from what I have been told is very random... It doesn't always happen that you lose color.. I don't think this is very widely understood at this point. I believe that when we keep culling the lighter and breeding the darker consistantly we are able to gain 100 percent of the loss over time... I was told at one point it would take 4 generations to retrieve a loss.. How true that is.. I just can't say.

Marans are in their infancy here so we just don't have the answers yet... You have great questions!!! I enjoy your posts!!! thanks

I would love to evaluate your chickens VillageChicken if you don't mind me using my understanding of the French standard.
I strongly believe we were following more closely their footsteps... It makes no never mind to me at this point.

Everyone Beware!

French standard breeder here with an eye on the DARK EGGS!!!! Until I have a copy of an American SOP in my hand personally that is current then this is my story and I a sticking to it...

 

[math ace]

GEEBS

Very nice thought provoking questions Village