Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[math ace]

Here's my roo. His name is Willie and is about 21 weeks old now.

I didn't see anyone comment on this cockerel

I am going out on a line here and going to say for the record, " I Like this boy".
He looks solid for type and color. Looks like he is going to have a beefy chest, nice back length and good tail angle.
Eye color is a little light, but that could be the photo. His wattles are good size, not too large and ear lobes look solid red.


Areas for you to look closely at...
1.) Inspect that comb carefullly on both sides. Look for anything weird... I just can not see it well on my computer.

2.) Look at him for front and back.... You are looking for width. A narrow rooster can not be identified with photos taken in a side profile.

3.) Chest color... The chest should be BLACK.... I can not see if this boy is hiding color on his chest that should not be there...

4.) Wing - Open the wings. At 21 weeks.... There should not be any white feathers hiding in the wings. If there are any white feathers, they should be molting soon VERY Soon, if they are going to. This is a DQ.

5.) Undercoat, peel back some feathers at the neck. See if he has white in the undercolor. This is considered a fault, not a DQ.

6.) Middle toe feathering... LOOK CLOSELY at the middle toes. Feathers should be on the outside of the outer toes - ONLY.. On any other toe, the feathering is a fault.

 

[Arielle]

In regards to breeding marans, after a year of following the maran threads and a few others, I believe that the marans are a difficult mixed up breed that needs a lot of work. Many challenges to get this breed up to SOP. It is a relatively new breed and has often been mixed with another breed due to the lack of numbers and other reasons as well.

Everyone that buys eggs or chicks expects perfect birds when that doesn't fit the reality. My birds are not perfect; but they are close to the SOP; they need work, but they are a good start.

If you want a really good bird to start with, perhaps the marans is not the one to start with. Old heritage lines are available here in the US if you ask Bob blosl; sometimes that is an easy way for a person to start in chickens. Marans are a very difficult bird color wise, very complicated.

I am not trying to turn anyone away from Marans, goodness knows I like them, rather understand this breed is very challenging from a number of angles. If you know the issues and understand the way to breed them you will make progress. It takes knowledge and experience.

Just my two cents.

 

[stoopid]

Well said.

 

[Arielle]

I've been listening to Snowbird!!

 

[gilavina]

This isn't a breed that you can just buy good birds and be done.
Money doesn't buy experience, and people that have been through the learning stages won't part with good stock so easily.
There is more to improving the breed than just selling off good birds. Those birds need to go to others that will also work to improve them.
It is hard to put a price on all the heartache and time that alot of us have been through.
Just my own opinion....

Agreed ma'am. It is hard to get a good start, and when you've put tons of work into improving them it is very hard to just sell to everyone. It is a labor of love and I personally feel that when I do start to release stock, it will be to those that I believe are doing for the love of the breed itself and not to just make money off of them. While making money from a flock isn't wrong, I personally don't think it is enough motivation to do the type of work necessary to improve them. I know I've been harassed from time to time about not releasing birds, but its about the birds first and foremost and always will be for me.

 

[redwood]

I see how much work and time you all have put into your birds especially after reading through a lot of this thread. My main question was whether the "mossy" chicks I received had any hope of turning out okay. Does anyone else have any experience with this? And should the chicks have been sold from a breeder in the first place? Is it common practice? I appreciate all of the input so far.

 

[math ace]

I see how much work and time you all have put into your birds especially after reading through a lot of this thread. My main question was whether the "mossy" chicks I received had any hope of turning out okay. Does anyone else have any experience with this? And should the chicks have been sold from a breeder in the first place? Is it common practice? I appreciate all of the input so far.

If you didn't ask for "show quality" and the breeder didn't advertise "show quality", then no wrong was done!
This should not be a "Don't ask, Don't tell" environment. Those who buy on a Whim, shouldn't be surprised when something quirky hatches.
Every buyer has a responsibility to ask the seller "What faults are running in your lines?" , "What faults are you working on?" , "What are the positive and negatives of your birds?", "Are your birds show quality, breeder quality, or pet quality?". These are tough questions and many feel they should not have to ask them at all. However, I want to point out that in America, we operate under the principle of caveat emptor.

"A Latin phrase meaning "Let the buyer beware." The buyer is responsible for inspecting the property or item and is assumed to be buying at his or her own risk. Under the principle of caveat emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects or otherwise made material misrepresentations amounting to fraud."

In other words, it is only WRONG of the seller to sell mossy birds if you asked some of the above questions and received only positive / denial answers.

In reality, ALL of us have something going on with our birds.... Mossy birds are GREAT for those who just want dark egg layers.

 

[Wynette]

Hi, redwood - I haven't been following this thread much, but your post is one that we see over and over again. If you bought day old chicks, it's often not discernable at that age whether or not they will be mossy. Some will say they have brown fluff on their hind ends; I have not seen that to be true in the Marans I have hatched from several lines, which looked quite black at hatch, and some ending up being mossy. Mossy does not go away, does not molt out. The "good news" in it, if there is any, is that it's thought by many that mossy females produce darker eggs. I'm not sure I buy into that; the W. Jeane line is known for mossiness, and they are also known for very, very dark eggs. Thus, I believe that is where this thought comes from.

As far as whether selling mossy chicks is common practice...there are folks out there that will sell anything for a buck. Sad, but true. Do your research - take a look at the parent stock, ask what they are working on in their flocks. Most good breeders will tell you what they are working on (as in, what issues they have that they are attempting to correct). I am transparent in my dealings with folks so that they have no misconception going in when purchasing hatching eggs or stock from me. I'd rather have them pleasantly surprised than very upset later on.

 

[math ace]

Ohhhhhhh, while I am on my soap box, I would like to point out that this is not a MARANS ONLY issue.... I have bought other breeds from old time, well known breeders and bought from breeders with SQ stock. The chicks I hatched were full of DQ's...

I've hatched white legged chicks from yellow legged breeds, I've hatched chicks with wry tail and vision issues, I've hatched chicks with knocked knees. Seriously, these were from top of the line breeders and NOT MARANS STOCK. So, anyone who things this is a marans only issue is kidding themshelves BIG TIME!

Ohhhhhh.... while I am at it, let me be clear - I ASKED all the right questions.

It is what it is! If you want to breed show quality chickens, then you had better put on your big girl panties and buckle up for a long rough ride!

 

[DMRippy]

I think she means Mossy Grown birds, not chicks.