Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[pinkchick]

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CORRECT

This hen would not be a good match for your BCM roo IF he does not get some additional color. She needs a roo with color to add color to her.

Also, notice her back side - - - it is narrow and the tail is pinched. A wider back side is not only prettier, but helps with the egg laying production. . . ( at least that is my understanding). Kinda like a woman with wider hips is likely to have better luck at child birth!

Lisa, just curious why you would even want to breed this female since she has a carnation comb ? Don

Don~ Where are you seeing that type of comb on said female bird? I see a single comb that may have some small sprigs near the top of one of the points, but I don't see carnation......Please show me what I am missing Don?

 

[marquisella]

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In the French standard, as it is written, not in the other pages where it goes into depth in explanations, it does not mention green in the males at all. This is where it is difficult to please everyone. We can't have explanations in the standard. It does say Lustrous several times, other than in just the tails. What does lustrous mean? Does it mean green? ???

 

[snowbird]

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Lisa, just curious why you would even want to breed this female since she has a carnation comb ? Don

Don~ Where are you seeing that type of comb on said female bird? I see a single comb that may have some small sprigs near the top of one of the points, but I don't see carnation......Please show me what I am missing Don?

Kim, Look real close at pic #3 I believe and it shows a cluster of sprigs forming a carnation. After the Pene are crossed with Marans you do not get the real big Carnation like on the Pene, all you get is a small cluster of points. Don

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Don~ Where are you seeing that type of comb on said female bird? I see a single comb that may have some small sprigs near the top of one of the points, but I don't see carnation......Please show me what I am missing Don?

Kim, Look real close at pic #3 I believe and it shows a cluster of sprigs forming a carnation. After the Pene are crossed with Marans you do not get the real big Carnation like on the Pene, all you get is a small cluster of points. Don

Thank you for explaining that Don! I see what you are talking about now.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
In the French standard, as it is written, not in the other pages where it goes into depth in explanations, it does not mention green in the males at all. This is where it is difficult to please everyone. We can't have explanations in the standard. It does say Lustrous several times, other than in just the tails. What does lustrous mean? Does it mean green? ???

I was going by the older version that was dated July 2010 and it noted luster in a few places. Bev made mention once that some luster should be on the bird and yes, it was my understanding that luster and the green beetle sheen are one in the same. Hope if I am wrong that someone will correct me.

 

[math ace]

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Lisa, just curious why you would even want to breed this female since she has a carnation comb ? Don

Don~ Where are you seeing that type of comb on said female bird? I see a single comb that may have some small sprigs near the top of one of the points, but I don't see carnation......Please show me what I am missing Don?

Alright guys - - - - I didn't say anything about the comb. Play nice . . . . I was only addressing the color and pinched tail. I didn't even LOOK at the comb.

I am only familiar with Single, Pea and Rose combs. .. . . Does someone want to post a picture of a carnation comb ? ? ? ?

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
In the French standard, as it is written, not in the other pages where it goes into depth in explanations, it does not mention green in the males at all. This is where it is difficult to please everyone. We can't have explanations in the standard. It does say Lustrous several times, other than in just the tails. What does lustrous mean? Does it mean green? ???

I was going by the older version that was dated July 2010 and it noted luster in a few places. Bev made mention once that some luster should be on the bird and yes, it was my understanding that luster and the green beetle sheen are one in the same. Hope if I am wrong that someone will correct me.

Kim, the way they describe the standard I do not believe Lustrous means green, it just means brilliant color that they are referring to. It is mentioned in several places talking about different colors.

This Proposed Standard looks pretty good to me and should go through without any other changes. I would not worry about the green sheen as this is all covered in the cutting for points section of the SOP, I do not know of an APA judge that would DQ or deduct for geeen on the BC. Don

 

[ksf59]

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no no. I have wellsummers in that pen as well.

 

[pinkchick]

Don~

Not being disagreeable at all... do me a favor and look at the MOAC club Black Copper roo they have posted....he has "beetle sheen green" in all of the areas that on the proposed standard from the MCC that was dated 7/2010 is referring to as "luster" or "lusterous." (Note: the new updated proposal that Sue just added, does not mention lusterous or luster near as many times as the previous version.) Also, if you scroll down that same MOAC page you will see the term lusterous and luster together, Copied from there: Tail: Main Tail—Lustrous with slight luster. The term luster is used differently here, I believe describing the beetle sheen, which in itself, is lusterous. So basically, IMO, it is referring to the brilliant color in these areas... yes, but above and beyond the base black and to mean more than just shiny. Does that make sense? Or am I off my rocker? I lean toward the latter, but I know for sure that someone once explained to me when I asked what the lusterous or luster was referring to that it was pertaining to the green beetle sheen color.

Please set me straight if I am misreading this or if I am completely wrong.
I can say, IMO, that if we try to breed it out or limit it too much that it may cause other unwanted effects....such as things not having an acceptable amount of darkness and being too light. I believe that it is linked to how some of the melanizing genes work with each other in the bird, yes possibly creating some darker birds, but how many melanizing effects can we afford to loose in the Black Copper with so many other things that are going on with them?

I've gone and totally confused myself now for sure!

 

[snowbird]

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Pink, Look at the Back, says lustrous Mahogany, look under Wings, Bows, lustrous Deep copper. I think that who ever worded the Proposed Standard just doesn't understand the terminolgy of the different wording. What we see is what is going in the book. Every Judge will have a different interpretation eventually. Don