Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Wynette]

Cristina, it doesn't look SUPER tiny, it's a decent size for a pullet egg! Cross fingers she'll darken up after the next couple of eggs, but it's pretty! congrats!

 

[CristinaB]

We were shocked at the sheen of the egg, it outshines all of our other eggs. Discoveries like this, make me love this breed even more. I still have one pullet maturing, so eventually I will get two of these a day!

 

[Wynette]

We were shocked at the sheen of the egg, it outshines all of our other eggs. Discoveries like this, make me love this breed even more. I still have one pullet maturing, so eventually I will get two of these a day!

The sheen is nice - I was actually going to comment on that before. Many of the darker layers lay an egg with a matte finish on the outside, which is not preferred. I have one hen that lays a really dark egg, almsot a (TRUE) 8, but it's matte finish. I've bred her to 4 different males at this point, and all of her offspring lay matte finish eggs, even if the males were hatched from an egg with good sheen. IT's frustrating, so enjoy them knowing they are the preferred finish for Marans eggs!

 

[marquisella]

Quote:
The problem with the wheaten showing up in BC Marans according to the French site was caused by the Wheaten males being used in the BC breeding pens as the farmers did not know the difference. The wheaten blood is also why we see the BC with the white Shanks and feet, the white wing and tail feathers and also the white undercolor in the BC. The BC males that have the halo going on with the Hackle feathers is a sign there is wheaten blood going on.

The white undercolor and the white wing and tail feathers can be bred out by rigid culling. All of these wheaten influence problems go hand to hand. I proved two year ago that it can be bred out of the BC though.


Thank You Snowbird

I have a theory on the breeding of the Marans in France that i've seen proven in other locations on other breeds . I won't go into it but it appears that when the French site was confronted with this question "why is the wheaton patterns/colors showing up out of BC ?" they simply did not know the answer sooo (what's the natural thing for humans to do) blame it on the peasant .
Still not knowing the truth ,

Trouble lies with the thinking that a breed or variety we know now is or was pure as the the white driven snow .

Shannon
I have been a long time not reading these posts, but want to comment here.

I have it on good authority, that the problem with wheaten being bred to black coppers in France was certainly not intentional but happened when several breeders, whether they were peasants or not I don't know, accidently bred Wheaten roos to their black copper hens. Shortly after that, well, probably a few years, the French began to notice that the roosters were developinng copper spots in their breasts.It was at this time, they revised the French standard for black copper roos, from an all black breast to a breast allowing 10% copper spots. This was confessed by a past president of the French club to a friend of mine when they visited France.

So, that is what happened to Wade Jeane when he imported eggs.
As I understand it, Unbeknowst to him, the eggs he received were the product of a bc and wheaten breeding at some point.. After a couple of generations, wheatens started popping up in chicks that were directly bought from him.

So, here in the US, we have lines that were imported from England, that were pure black copper, and some from France that had Wheaten in the mix. If one has Jeane related Marans, you can be sure they had Wheaten in their line.

What I know about Davis line, is she started with English Marans imported into the US, and I can attest that since 2007 when I bought eggs from Bev, I have never had a wheaten chick come from any of my hens,. I'm posting this so people can be aware of where their Marans came from, and deal with it as need be.

Having said that, I have had on occasion, roos with white "fluff" at the base of the tail, but since I culled very hard to get rid of that, so far I haven't seen it again in a couple of years.

This year I'm running on 5 cockerels. One of them has a huge comb...I look at it & wonder where in the hell did that come from? I'm in the NE, so I can't blame it on the warm weather...

I also ran on a beautiful and I mean, beautiful cockerel, probably the best one I've bred so far, and he had a wry tail.....where that came from I have no idea. I guess I'm posting this because even if you have great birds, you are going to breed some losers and have to cull. Its not an easy process, and can take years.

Sue

 

[Broad St Farm]

I have been a long time not reading these posts, but want to comment here.

I have it on good authority, that the problem with wheaten being bred to black coppers in France was certainly not intentional but happened when several breeders, whether they were peasants or not I don't know, accidently bred Wheaten roos to their black copper hens. Shortly after that, well, probably a few years, the French began to notice that the roosters were developinng copper spots in their breasts.It was at this time, they revised the French standard for black copper roos, from an all black breast to a breast allowing 10% copper spots. This was confessed by a past president of the French club to a friend of mine when they visited France.

So, that is what happened to Wade Jeane when he imported eggs.
As I understand it, Unbeknowst to him, the eggs he received were the product of a bc and wheaten breeding at some point.. After a couple of generations, wheatens started popping up in chicks that were directly bought from him.

So, here in the US, we have lines that were imported from England, that were pure black copper, and some from France that had Wheaten in the mix. If one has Jeane related Marans, you can be sure they had Wheaten in their line.

What I know about Davis line, is she started with English Marans imported into the US, and I can attest that since 2007 when I bought eggs from Bev, I have never had a wheaten chick come from any of my hens,. I'm posting this so people can be aware of where their Marans came from, and deal with it as need be.

Having said that, I have had on occasion, roos with white "fluff" at the base of the tail, but since I culled very hard to get rid of that, so far I haven't seen it again in a couple of years.

This year I'm running on 5 cockerels. One of them has a huge comb...I look at it & wonder where in the hell did that come from? I'm in the NE, so I can't blame it on the warm weather...

I also ran on a beautiful and I mean, beautiful cockerel, probably the best one I've bred so far, and he had a wry tail.....where that came from I have no idea. I guess I'm posting this because even if you have great birds, you are going to breed some losers and have to cull. Its not an easy process, and can take years.

Sue

There is a good article floating around that has a complete history lesson on where all the Marans originated from here in the US. No disrespect to you or your friend, but I wouldnt even begin to believe or try to comprehend a story that produced about speculated breeding history in France. As whenever and however Wheaten got mixed into Black Copper, It happened a long time ago. So Im sure truth has been lost through the generations and probably happened by accident. Not to mention the fact that science and genetics were hodge podge back then too, so they probable didnt know what they were doing. From what I here there maybe penedesencas and Langshan in their lineage. So maybe what happend was someone breeding Wheaten to Langshans and that is why we have what we have now. There may have not been BCM and by doing the breeding of Wheaten/Langshans the offspring had the feathered legs and the Wheaten brought the copper hackles to the new breed. This is all speculation. Until some bigtime rocket scientists with their genetic wand figures it out we will never know. All we can do is concentrate on the now and work with what we have.

 

[Broad St Farm]

You know, I have been visiting the Marans forums for a couple of years now. Don't let the post count fool you. I have seen many a conversation in here. I have read every single post on this thread, The Black Copper Thread, and the SOP Thread. For the most part I agree with you. But I think peoples understanding and view should be, whether it be a new person or a veteran is this:

New People: If your Interested In getting Marans, read the posts. Information is repetitive and often times can be found by reading. Get to know the posters, who is newer and who is experienced. If your new please state that, and it helps to know the intentions of what you are looking for. Are you breeding? Do you just want a nice lawn ornament?

New people wanting an Ornament: I dont care if you call your birds Cock, Cockerel, Hen, Pullet, Roo, Rooster, Girls, Boys, Ladies, George or Nancy. Im happy to help you learn. If I can help further this breed, or make you fall in love with them that much more than great!

New People Breeding to SOP: If you are coming on here to tap into knowledge to get rich and be another person ripping people off on ebay, we have nothing for you! We always know who you are. If your serious, and you want peoples time to post responses to your questions, than YOU can spend time by doing your homework by reading, taking notes, taking criticism, learning the lingo, listening, being honest with us, and most of all honest to yourself. We are also not here to do all the work for you. Read! Acknowledge and appreciate the time we take out to respond to your post. At least if you respond, we know you are giving our idea some thought. It boils down to you. They are your birds. If you dont agree with our assessment thats fine. You see them up close and see things we can't. But If you post pictures and your bird is a mess, and your serious about learning, then don't get mad when we tell you your efforts would be better with a different bird. Your hurting yourself, your breeding program, your offspring, and God forbid the sucker who buys your stock should you sell them. I have posted in response to someone asking a question about what breed his bird was, and how he/she can spot the breed, and how this person should advertise his non-pure mixes so he doesnt deceive people because he/she wants to make a buck! I spent a good 45 min responding, on my phone, trying to not offend. I answered and other people did as well. SEVERAL times in other threads as well. I didnt get not even a response. Thats fine. But what I got out of it is someone not liking the answer that they got from everyone because they want to make money. If you come in being new, and then be rude and act like a know it all, disrespecting veterans, or ignore them, all bets are off. Its apparent that you do know it all, and really dont need us, so dont ask questions. Maybe Im wrong. If I am I will admit it.

Veteran/Experienced Showman/Breeder: Leader, This word is what more knowledgeble people on here need to value. Yes these threads are fairly serious threads to learn, and better for the breed. But again I will also emphasis that this is a Community as well. Many walks of life, cultures, ages, experience levels. It should not be difficult to be a part of these threads. If someone states they are new and here to learn, then teach them if they are willing to listen. But if they want to be a hobbyist, than let them say "Roos" or "girls". If they are serious they will correct themselves. If they dont want to learn, pass them by. But let me ask how does a person learn veterans? Remember in school. I do, and my time in the military. I remember every good Leader/Teacher and every BAD Leader/Teacher. Being pessimistic, negative, arrogant, not setting an example, not sharing your knowledge, being coarse, single minded, not respecting others opinions or beliefs are all things I remember. Do you think someone would want to be here, or learn if they are made to feel an inch tall? I have seen a couple people here (You know who you are) run off more people than I can count! Its always the same couple people. If your as serious as some veterans preach on here, than we are suppose to share this wonderful breed to improve it. Here is something to think about. How do we get the younger generations involved? Maybe my young daughter want to raise Marans for a 4H show. She comes on here to learn from wise people. Are any of you going to beast my daughter because she loves this great 4 month old rooster named "Boy". Let me guess, we would single her out telling her shes not serious enough to be on here because she calls a cockerel a rooster, telling her its not a boy, correct her for misspelled words, not putting an "S" on the end of Marans, not to mention misspelling WheatOn. Which results in a person leaving that could have contributed to chickens in the future. She could end up being a genetics person who maps out Marans. Who knows!

This is not that complicated ladies and gentleman. Not only should this be educational, but it should be fun as well. My thought and opinion is this. If you consider yourself knowledgeable on chickens and Marans. If you Intend to respond to posts and in essence Teach someone and cannot do it effectively and with respect(This does not include having a technical difference in opinion) than why even bother to respond to the person. If you cant say anything nice dont say it at all.

By the way, I made up the Daughter thing as an example. Im out!

"This post later edited to fix spelling errors lol and to add the below statement"

I want to again say thank you to my mentor, she knows who she is. I took this Breed head on, and searched for knowledge. I found it on here. She saw something in me and offered to come to my house to give me an assessment of my birds. Since that day we have become good friends and helped me through a lot. I was blessed because she is well respected and lives 10 minutes from me. I have learned a lot from many people on here. I thank everyone for that. But to those that go out of your way to treat others poorly, or simply have the mentality that you are who you are. I hope karma shows you many equal return. To the fairly new people on here. Hang in there, learn, and soon the roles will be reversed. You will be writing posts lifting up people, teaching and mentoring. Just dont turn into the people that get on your nerves now.

Wayne Cottrill

 

[CristinaB]

Where do the color cards come from. It is apparent there is a numbering system on egg color, any one have a moment to explain the system to me? Perhaps a link or a place where I can get a nice color card?

 

[Ripster]

Marans eggs are judged on a scale of 1 - 9 with 1 being a white egg and 9 a very dark egg. Eggs must be a minimum of a #4 to qualify as Marans. Here's where you can order egg color cards. http://www.maranschickenclubusa.com/Eggshowinfo.html just scroll down towards the bottom of the page for information on ordering.

 

[jueboll]

I wanted to know if he is a quality roo

 

[jueboll]

Hen or roo

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