Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Wynette]

Wynette that's a very nice male bird you posted about the only negative I see is that I would like to see his tail just a tad bit lower. But with that said, let me know when you won't be home and I drive up from Florida and spirit him away in the dead of the night. Oh, well after the spring thaw please. lol

The female you pointed out does indeed have a nicely spread tail. Tails like that go hand in hand with wide backs. Narrow backed birds tend to have pinched tails. I just might snag her when I get the male. lol Good job on both birds!

Thanks much...I've got a few dogs on my farm, Ripster, that may not take so kindly to a stranger creepin' around, just so you know! Anyway, I suspect you've got much nicer birds on your farm, but I do appreciate the comments.

Wynette,

It is not a you thing. It is a Marans thing. Yes you are absolutely right the concave or dish shaped back is NOT what the standard means when it says downward sloping. It means the flat back that you describe.

Really great discussion here. I'm happy to hear I'm not some weird "topline fanatic"!

 

[One Chick Two]

Quote:
Thank you Ihilani Coffee, DMRippy, Runawaylobster, Wynette, and Ripster, and those of you who kindly PM'd me.

I appreciate all your thoughts and opinions more than you can imagine! I really don't want to waste so much time, and money with so many mistakes. I only wish I had you all standing next to us at the show whispering, "NOOO! Not that one...! YESSS... that one's the one!" lol

We are going back to the breeder to exchange one of the other hens we'd purchased (the show was extremely hectic and crowded, so she had a twisted toe that got missed). We'll see if we can somehow possibly procure a different roo while we're there. It's kind of a shame because this boy really is such a calm natured fellow. Supposedly, he was wild, but yesterday he took some seeds from my hand and let me pet him a bit and doesn't seem perturbed by attention. Am amazed at how calm this breed is.

I do have a few more answers to some of the questions...

Yes, he's a big, stocky fellow, not at all small. He was larger than all of the other Marans roos that we saw available. Even larger and stockier than our RIR cockerels who are a month older.

His downy under fluff seems black, not white or gray. If it looks light, it's just the photos and reflective lighting, which I think are a bit light anyway.

On closer inspection, his legs and feet are actually a pale, pink color lined with slate? down the tops if that makes any sense.

His back feels longish, broad and flat to touch. It's like his shoulders seems flat and he is straight across. I think his hips look decent, that part looked better than many of the others we saw. He does seem to have a thick back and saddle feathering that is seeming to give him a slight U impression in the shape. When he stands naturally, he seems to stand taller in front, then slopes slightly downward toward his hip. His tail may be slightly on the high side, but I don't think it's actually a squirrel tail.

Can you all do me a favor please... (so we can be a little more prepared when visiting the breeder this time?) Could you show a really good photo of male and female type even if it's not your bird, and explain why those examples are better than average specimens? Any tips to especially look out for would be greatly appreciated too.

Thanks again everyone!Your thoughts and comments are very helpful!

P.S. The chart was GREAT Wynette! This does help to explain the angles to those of us who don't spot them yet.

 

[Chad Cool]

I need some help Y'all, My egg Candler light blow out and I mostly hatch Marans. Can y'all recommend a good egg Candler please?

 

[DeltaBluezTess]

I need some help Y'all, My egg Candler light blow out and I mostly hatch Marans. Can y'all recommend a good egg Candler please?

Brinsea HIGH intensity Candler...not the regular one

 

[Wynette]

One Chick - from your description of your male (is it a cockerel or cock?) he honestly doens't sound all that bad. It sounds like you have a pretty good sense of what to look for; the thing to do is use that sketch I posted a few pages back. Especially since you're fairly new to this breed. It's really easy to get distracted by colors - look at the shape of the bird, the "outline" - that's a big part of "type." It's important for all of us to remember that type is the most important, even moreso over color. Thus, if you have a cock bird with excellent type, but maybe too much copper in his breast, he'd definitely place over a cock bird with perfect color.

Shank color sounds fine - should be "slate over pink" and it sounds like that's what your male has, although I have seen them with too MUCH pink; however, I'm not sure whether that would be a deduction or not (perhaps Ripster could weigh in on that).

The squirrel tail issue is one that has pretty much been resolved, it seems to me; so, you'd not want to take a step back in that area if he does have too high of a tail set. The thing is, it's a huge balancing act. You need to decide what's most important to you, and to do that, it's a good idea to learn how difficult some issues are to "fix" - i.e., the squirrel tail issue. That's an easy fix; breed to hens with too low of a tailset. Also, clean shanks or too sparse of feathering on shanks; though clean shanks is a DQ in the show ring, I would NOT cull a male with them, as I have some females that have an overabundance of them and the offspring would be balanced out in that regard. However, the issues such as the "halo" we talk about, and things like white enamelin (sp?) on the lobes are things you don't/shouldn't carry forward into future generations.

The other thing, and I get hand slap PMs for this when I say it but I stick to my guns here - you also need to work with what you have available. I'm one of those folks who has a difficult time culling the males, as I look at each one and see something that each one could bring to the equasion. So for me, rather than checking off the list of things the bird DOES have, I will often look at what he DOES NOT have and choose from there.

(all of this is my own personal opinion...y'all need to do what feels right to you).

Chad - I use a very VERY old slide projector; I got it when an office was closing - they were throwing it away. DH made a wood frame for it so that it points (and is stable) straight up. I took an old washrag & rubber banded it to the lens, and then cut a slit about an inch long. That thing sees through concrete, I think. Well....okay, maybe not concrete, but it's a darn good candler, and I got it free!

 

[Chad Cool]

One Chick - from your description of your male (is it a cockerel or cock?) he honestly doens't sound all that bad. It sounds like you have a pretty good sense of what to look for; the thing to do is use that sketch I posted a few pages back. Especially since you're fairly new to this breed. It's really easy to get distracted by colors - look at the shape of the bird, the "outline" - that's a big part of "type." It's important for all of us to remember that type is the most important, even moreso over color. Thus, if you have a cock bird with excellent type, but maybe too much copper in his breast, he'd definitely place over a cock bird with perfect color.

Shank color sounds fine - should be "slate over pink" and it sounds like that's what your male has, although I have seen them with too MUCH pink; however, I'm not sure whether that would be a deduction or not (perhaps Ripster could weigh in on that).

The squirrel tail issue is one that has pretty much been resolved, it seems to me; so, you'd not want to take a step back in that area if he does have too high of a tail set. The thing is, it's a huge balancing act. You need to decide what's most important to you, and to do that, it's a good idea to learn how difficult some issues are to "fix" - i.e., the squirrel tail issue. That's an easy fix; breed to hens with too low of a tailset. Also, clean shanks or too sparse of feathering on shanks; though clean shanks is a DQ in the show ring, I would NOT cull a male with them, as I have some females that have an overabundance of them and the offspring would be balanced out in that regard. However, the issues such as the "halo" we talk about, and things like white enamelin (sp?) on the lobes are things you don't/shouldn't carry forward into future generations.

The other thing, and I get hand slap PMs for this when I say it but I stick to my guns here - you also need to work with what you have available. I'm one of those folks who has a difficult time culling the males, as I look at each one and see something that each one could bring to the equasion. So for me, rather than checking off the list of things the bird DOES have, I will often look at what he DOES NOT have and choose from there.

(all of this is my own personal opinion...y'all need to do what feels right to you).

Chad - I use a very VERY old slide projector; I got it when an office was closing - they were throwing it away. DH made a wood frame for it so that it points (and is stable) straight up. I took an old washrag & rubber banded it to the lens, and then cut a slit about an inch long. That thing sees through concrete, I think. Well....okay, maybe not concrete, but it's a darn good candler, and I got it free!

Thank you Wynette sounds easy to me but I just have to find a bright light source.

 

[bardies]

6 or 7 inch led flashlight - look for the high lumens label does well for me. Flashlights in a sports section - for hiking or spelunking or whatever - tend to be higher powered than the standard stuff at walmart.

 

[DMRippy]

6 or 7 inch led flashlight - look for the high lumens label does well for me. Flashlights in a sports section - for hiking or spelunking or whatever - tend to be higher powered than the standard stuff at walmart.

They have some at Costco that are 250 lumens and I think now some 500 lumens.





This is a piece of a water bottle cut off to fit the top of the flashlight.





Electrical tape all over to not let light leak.

 

[Runawaylobster]

They have some at Costco that are 250 lumens and I think now some 500 lumens.





This is a piece of a water bottle cut off to fit the top of the flashlight.





Electrical tape all over to not let light leak.

Hi Donna,

what you have made is a rudimentary collimated light source, the longer the tube (bottle top) the more collimated it gets. Collimated sources only put out parallel beams of light. (we use collimated light at my work for various things). if you use an all black tube instead of a bottle top, and even better one from a non reflective material it will make the collimator more efficient. if you have time just for kicks try painting the inside of the bottle top with flat black paint. it is also done with a collimating lens but your black tube has a similar effect just not as efficient.

so ultimately what it does is that it makes something casting a shadow from a collimated source appear to have a sharper shadow. might be why it works well for candling. I haven't tried it but your stuff has given me an idea to construct a collimated source and see if it is a good candling device. !!!

btw, i found an inspection pen sized light at home depot for $5 it is really good for candling

 

[Runawaylobster]

Does anyone know where the white tail feather issue comes from, is it recessive?

how do people handle this when it shows up only in roosters over 1 year old?

I have a roo that had one feather turn white, then right after that he moulted and
it fell out. BUT now he is back re-feathered after his moult and a tail feather has
started to turn white again. It did not grow white, and you can see that the white
part gets bigger over time and the black part goes away. I am wondering if
it is not the same as growing the white feather from scratch??? maybe having a
damaged feather follicle or something??