Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Debbi]

Quote:
Thanks for the advice.
It is hard to be patient. I don't know when it happened but I seem to have been bitten by some sort of BCM obsession. I went from just getting a few, because my six year old son wanted those chickens that lay chocolate eggs, to some strung out Marans dude. I have had chickens for most of my life (mostly RIR,and BR) and have thirty to forty at any given time. I have never been eaten up like this. I need to watch it or it may lead to an intervention.

FOGELLY Oh buddy, you're in the wrong place if you want an intervention! We are ALL enablers!!

And I may add, in the same boat you are!

Hang in there, it gets worse!

 

[marquisella]

Quote:
No, I wanted to send down a couple of cockerels, but they both got frostbit combs, and they really needed cocks, not young boys...

I went down last year, didn't take any birds, but had a good time meeting people.
I would have gone this year but my daughter is having a baby soon, and she always goes early. And, I just couldn't justify going again that far, and who knew what the weather was going to be like, so far its been cold and awful.

I hope Bev will call me as soon a she knows the results of the show. I will post here right away.

Eggs, hhhmmmm. I am trying to incubate all those dark eggs. I will know this weekend if those first ones are fertile or not...keep fingers crossed. I've gotten a few this week and am planning on incubating them until I have enough for myself to run on.

After that, probably May or so, I will offer them for sale as long as they are being laid.
I will post here when that happens.

I think Bev is sending back a solid blue cockerel for me. I have a single black hen from a black line, so I'm hoping to breed blue & blacks without copper...That will be fun!

Always something else to do...

Sue

 

[math ace]

ON A SIDE NOTE - - - - I am looking for some eggs from show quality speckled sussex (standard size, not bantams). ANYONE going to Newnan- - - -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE KEEP me in mind. . . .

IF you see show quality speckled sussex - - -please get contact information and PM it to me.

 

[VillageChicken]

Quote:
Thanks for the advice.
It is hard to be patient. I don't know when it happened but I seem to have been bitten by some sort of BCM obsession. I went from just getting a few, because my six year old son wanted those chickens that lay chocolate eggs, to some strung out Marans dude. I have had chickens for most of my life (mostly RIR,and BR) and have thirty to forty at any given time. I have never been eaten up like this. I need to watch it or it may lead to an intervention.

FOGELLY Oh buddy, you're in the wrong place if you want an intervention! We are ALL enablers!!

And I may add, in the same boat you are!

Hang in there, it gets worse!

That's funny... "strung out Marans dude". The first step is recognizing you have a problem. We here on BYC... we have no such problem, we are not in denial, we see everything perfectly clearly and use our chicken logic to assess ourselves in a healthy manner. Yeah, I started with 10 hatching eggs from unknown stock, and now I have too many to count including white and wheaten. I get faint twinges that something might be wrong... when I'm waiting in line and find myself thinking about breeding strategies or how to make space for another breeding pen... or when I can't sleep and I'm thinking about chickens, or when I'm sleeping and I dream about chickens... strung out? Me?

About melanizers, coverts and ear color. The only melanizer that is recognized that BCM possess is Melanotic. There are other melanizers that have not been identified, some that are recessive and only exhibit in homozygous form. There is also variation in expression of the same genes in different birds. It is generally recognized that the columbian gene has no effect whatsoever on the ER birchen allele. But it has not been tested for such subtle variations or effects on eye and horn. Co on eWh, eb and e+ is a eumelanin restrictor (less black) and Mahogany Mh, while darkening gold to red also has a similar although weaker effect in restricting black. It may be possible that Co in homozygous form and Mh in homozygous form (both double doses) actually do restrict melanization in such subtle ways like covert, eye and horn color.

I posted that 13 week rooster that's feathering out just like the 10 month old. Very dark, but with correct eye, horn and shank color. Coverts are still coming in. It's mystifying to me as well.

 

[geebs]

Alright.. Now explain to me the Columbian markers??? In the eyes you say... Is there a way to identify Co??? A phenotypical giveaway???

 

[Wynette]

Quote:
Oh, goodness........

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
FOGELLY Oh buddy, you're in the wrong place if you want an intervention! We are ALL enablers!!

And I may add, in the same boat you are!

Hang in there, it gets worse!

That's funny... "strung out Marans dude". The first step is recognizing you have a problem. We here on BYC... we have no such problem, we are not in denial, we see everything perfectly clearly and use our chicken logic to assess ourselves in a healthy manner. Yeah, I started with 10 hatching eggs from unknown stock, and now I have too many to count including white and wheaten. I get faint twinges that something might be wrong... when I'm waiting in line and find myself thinking about breeding strategies or how to make space for another breeding pen... or when I can't sleep and I'm thinking about chickens, or when I'm sleeping and I dream about chickens... strung out? Me?

About melanizers, coverts and ear color. The only melanizer that is recognized that BCM possess is Melanotic. There are other melanizers that have not been identified, some that are recessive and only exhibit in homozygous form. There is also variation in expression of the same genes in different birds. It is generally recognized that the columbian gene has no effect whatsoever on the ER birchen allele. But it has not been tested for such subtle variations or effects on eye and horn. Co on eWh, eb and e+ is a eumelanin restrictor (less black) and Mahogany Mh, while darkening gold to red also has a similar although weaker effect in restricting black. It may be possible that Co in homozygous form and Mh in homozygous form (both double doses) actually do restrict melanization in such subtle ways like covert, eye and horn color.
I posted that 13 week rooster that's feathering out just like the 10 month old. Very dark, but with correct eye, horn and shank color. Coverts are still coming in. It's mystifying to me as well.

So, is that why the really dark boys (almost 7 months old), I have show proper eye, horn, and shanks, yet have now black ear coverts?? Does that mean there is a Columbian gene at work somewhere in there?? I'm so cornfused!

 

[geebs]

No body wanted cool cuckoos when I had em... No body wanted the ugly duckwing things when I had them.... No body wanted just blue without copper when I had them....No body wanted birchen or silver birchen when I had em.... Sheeesh... I am sticking with black copper I think my pen looked like skittles at one time.

 

[geebs]

Okay VC... got one for ya... A bird presenting with too much black.. neck and such is mahogany.... Shanks are dark, eyes are correct... ear coverts dark... and yet there is flames in the chest... What in the world is that one???? Ever seen it...??? I will see if I can find a picture...

 

[VillageChicken]

Quote:
Sorry Geebs... no markers, just speculation as to how things don't work according to what we know thus far about breeding BCM. Co on wheaten creates the Silver Sussex type or Blacktail buff type. But on Birchen it's supposed to have no effect. It's just a theory. Co is incomplete dominant, so even in one dose it has an effect on eWh. I don't think anyone knows what affect it has on the eumelanin restriction on ER when double dosed with Mh too. Maybe it restricts in eye and horn, but not in feather???

It's just one possible explanation for why eye and horn don't always correspond with feathering. I've seen light birds with dark eyes and dark birds with correct eyes. Same with shank color. I don't think it's really important to make a correlation, it doesn't always mean hidden wheaten. But I know it is well documented that a rooster with correct eyes produces correct eyes when combined with incorrect hens.

Sorry for the confusion... nothing changes, just speculating.