black patterned gold duckwing

[Krys109uk]

Chris, I think it's hobby names again. I think golden duckwing is het silver/gold in the males. I could be wrong, I find hobby names confusing myself.

 

[tadkerson]

Gold duckwings may carry autosomal red. I believe they are the same genotype as a silver duckwing but with autosomal red. I believe silver duckwings and some other silver breeds carry inhibitors that remove the autosomal red or they lack the autosomal red all together.

I crossed an appenzeller hen with a rhode island red roo and the males (S/s+) do not show any red in their feathers. It may appear as they get older- I will have to wait and see.

My other silver crosses involving a rhode island red male show all kinds of red in the males and females. They start to show red in their juvenile feathers- even the females. I still have red showing up in my Rhode Island Silvers ( this is not a variety but a hobby name for the birds I have produced).

That is why I say some birds have an inhibitor of red pigments. My appenzellers have some kind of gene that is removing the red from the males. They should be showing all kinds of red on their backs and wing bows but the males are a clean white (silver).

I need to do a reciprocal cross with a male appenzeller and a female rhode island red and see what happens. I do not have any male appenzellers. That will have to wait for another day.

Tim

 

[Chris09]

I got this from a book I had on Old English Game Bantams I dont know if this will help make sence of the Gold Duckwing or not...

Female of the silver and the gold duckwing are almost identical in ther adult plumage. This is hardly surprising considering that there basic genetic constitution is the same whether they are bred or shown as goldens or silvers.
To the best of this wrighter's knowledge the precise understanding from the genetic sense as to how the golden duckwing male differs from the silver duckwing mail has not been demonstrated. Itis not the simple silver versus gold explanation because bouth these varieties are pure for the silver (S) gene. There must be another gene which produces thegolden saddle of the golden duckwing male and this same gene does not show in the gold duckwing female. In any case the golden duckwing pattern is not easy to breed for..

Make two matings. First mating: black breasted red male X silver duckwing female. Save only duckwing colored chicks, boyh pullets and cockerals from this mating. Head the second mating with a silver duckwing male and mate him to a black breasted red female. Save both cockerels and pullets from this mating. Progeny from these matings will give a good start in setting up a good strain of golden duckwings....

Chris

 

[Krys109uk]

I think you'll find that gold duckwing & golden duckwing are not the same thing.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Right

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Right

But I bet that there are many who do not realize that and use the terms interchangably

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Chris,

Is the book the first addition of Fred Jeffry's "Bantam Chickens"?

That flow chart is very good. The only problem I have with the chart is the recessive black. Recessive black is an old term for the black associated with non columbian restricted birds. Further research has shown that the black is associated with the E locus allele. I am not saying there is not a gene or genes that cause the black; recent literature, I have not found any, does not say anything about the black in brassy backs.

I will start a string and see if anybody has crossed brassy backs with black breasted reds or does the book have anything about the crossing.

Well, that information throws my hypothesis into the trash can. I did not do enough research before I opened my big mouth. The gene would have to be sex dependent and found in black breasted red OEGB. The female hormones would turn off the gene and the male hormones or the lack of female hormones would turn on the gene. It may be a modifier of the wild type gene or a modifier of the autosomal red gene or even a different wild type allele. Another possibility is a sex dependent inhibitor. Experimentation would determine the nature of the gene.

The autosomal red I have observed is expressed in male and females. I was thinking about the hypothetical red pigment inhibitor in my appenzeller and believe it is closely linked to the silver allele. And then it could be something else; that is why it is a hypothesis.

Tim

 

[Chris09]

Tim;

The book is Old English Game Bantams as Bred and Shown in the United States
by F.P. Jeffrey and William Richardson.

I will start a string and see if anybody has crossed brassy backs with black breasted reds or does the book have anything about the crossing.

I will check and see if there is anything in there about that cross...

Chris​

 

[amazondoc]

I'd like to revisit this older thread.

I have heard some folks say that gold duckwing roos are split S/s+ , while others say that they are S/S with autosomal red or perhaps mahogany.

I have bantam araucanas. In particular, I have one gold duckwing roo. Amongst others he has produced a gold duckwing cockerel offspring, as well as BBR cockerels, one very silver duckwing pullet, and two or three goldish duckwing pullets. No silver duckwing cockerels, at least to this point.

I would like to work on building gold, silver, and/or BBR breeding pens.

So -- does anyone have good concrete info about the variations on duckwing in araucanas? Is it truly a case of S/S, S/s+, and s+/s+? If so, what is the difference (if any) between gold duckwing and BBR hens?

Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[tadkerson]

I never seen any research on the araucana. What holds true for other breeds will work on araucana

Gold duckwing carry only the gold gene or genes.

Golden Duckwing carry only the silver gene or genes plus autosomal red and possibly mahogany.

The red in the golden duckwing is only present in the males. Silver duckwing females and golden duckwing females look the same.

Should work the same in araucana as game birds. They should have the same E locus and be wild type.

Tim