Black silkies

[Sonoran Silkies]

Ok now look a little closer at that list of black alleles. Where do most blue birds have the dark color? the head, hackles, shoulder, saddle and breast feathers

Here's a pretty good example of a blue I used to have.



Now look at that and go back and reread the description for the birchen base. E^R (birchen) - needs help from black extenders to make a black bird . Now go back and think about those poor blacks from blues.... Get a birchen based black with not enough black extenders and I'm sure you would have an easy route for those poor blacks. Makes for nice looking blues, but the blacks resulting from it are not going to be that gorgeous jet black all the time.

For whatever it may be worth, Dr Okimoto said in an older thread on The Coop that the best exhibition black silkies were probably birchen based. He isn't on there any more, so I can't ask "why?". I'll see if I can find a link to that thread, or at least others' commentary on it.

 

[Feathersprings]

This all makes sense to me . So I am assuming most blacks we see are not going to be the black/black type but come from some sort of mixed breeding with different bases.How do you know when you are looking for breeding stock which is which? Are there very many breeders with the true black genetics? I have a black Pullet from a "black pen" I guess that doesnt mean much if you dont know the origins of the breeding stock in that pen? Not just quality but color... After reading some discussion about this subject and how you need to tell people when you sell black birds they are from BBS breeding , paint, lav/split etc. I had asked at what point breeding black to black are they just black without qualifying. The answers were more about quality than about color. I am looking forward to working with blacks but most likely will be taking the long hard route ... Im sure I will be keeping in touch through this thread.

 

[Feathersprings]

For whatever it may be worth, Dr Okimoto said in an older thread on The Coop that the best exhibition black silkies were probably birchen based. He isn't on there any more, so I can't ask "why?". I'll see if I can find a link to that thread, or at least others' commentary on it.

Thanks, that should be an interesting thread!

 

[destiny_56085]

Good question Suze... I know I get partridges popping up every now and then. Cara Smith from CO had some of a similar line for a while and got what looked like wheatons out of hers. I do get some cockerels with gold leakage in the hackles. Age and hormones also play a role in color too. Older cocks in my birds are pure black at first too and sometimes do develop off color at 2+ years old. Maybe that birchen base is enough to darken up the hackles on what would otherwise show leakage? I'm just trying to brainstorm why that base could be beneficial.....

 

[littlecritters]

Destiny, thank you for the excellent information. Your willingness to share and educate is really appreciated.


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[moomoodiddy]

hey yall i have a black roo that has some gold leakage if i am breeding to a paint hen will that bleed through on my paint biddies?

 

[destiny_56085]

Maybe you need to ask some of the people on the paint forums about that. Paints are known to throw just about anything and everything.... You will probably get really variable results even using a solid jet black on them too.

 

[moomoodiddy]

Maybe you need to ask some of the people on the paint forums about that.  Paints are known to throw just about anything and everything....  You will probably get really variable results even using a solid jet black on them too.

k thanx do u know how to get the gold leakage out breeding black to black?

 

[destiny_56085]

Ok ... back to the basics again. On the males if they have the genes for the gold leakage they will show it. Thus its pretty easy to cull for young males that show color in the hackles. Some take up to 10-12 months for it to show though so you might be feeding out birds for a while... The females carry the genes and will pass them on to their young, but don't express the color themselves. So even if you pair those black females with a solid jet black male, you wil get all jet black females and males that may or may not show color in the hackles (phenotypically anyways). So the challenge is not only getting that elusive perfect black male, but also eliminating the carriers on the female side.

Ok now I'm going to complicate it a lil bit.... Hormones and age play a role in the color too. So you can have a perfectly black male that is jet black with no leakage at 1,2, even 5 years of age and then boom after a molt they can show color.... Fun eh? Now in the standard of perfection off-color in a cockerel is a disqualification. In an older male it is a defect.

The off-colored males, depending on the genome of the hen's you are mating them to, can also possibly throw some clear blacks. I've also heard it told among breeders in not just silkies that it is wise to use those males that develop gold in the hackles later in life. They supposedly throw the deepest dark blacks. Your breeding stock is not always your show stock....

Then the hardest part is whether to strive for simply great color, great body type/feathering, or both... Because let's just say you have a black hen that just won a major national show. Exceptional type, feathering, perfect color, etc. But say you do test breedings on that so called perfect bird and you find that she'll throw cockerels with off-color, some of the most perfect females you have ever seen, and a few great clear cockerels too? Do you cull something like that just because she is a carrier?....probably not. Usually only 1/100 (or more) of cockerels should ever be good enough to go back into a breeding program anyways. You save back the best of her clear boys and get some darn nice girls to show.... Its kind of a double edged sword. If you cull simply for color sometimes you can lose the most important factor....type. I think alot of our major hatcheries have proved that to be true.

 

[moomoodiddy]

Ok ...  back to the basics again.  On the males if they have the genes for the gold leakage they will show it.  Thus its pretty easy to cull for young males that show color in the hackles.  Some take up to 10-12 months for it to show though so you might be feeding out birds for a while...  The females carry the genes and will pass them on to their young, but don't express the color themselves.  So even if you pair those black females with a solid jet black male, you wil get all jet black females and males that may or may not show color in the hackles (phenotypically anyways). So the challenge is not only getting that elusive perfect black male, but also eliminating the carriers on the female side.

Ok now I'm going to complicate it a lil bit....   Hormones and age play a role in the color too.  So you can have a perfectly black male that is jet black with no leakage at 1,2, even 5 years of age and then boom after a molt they can show color....  Fun eh?  Now in the standard of perfection off-color in a cockerel is a disqualification.  In an older male it is a defect. 

The off-colored males, depending on the genome of the hen's you are mating them to, can also possibly throw some clear blacks.  I've also heard it told among breeders in not just silkies that it is wise to use those males that develop gold in the hackles later in life.  They supposedly throw the deepest dark blacks.  Your breeding stock is not always your show stock....

Then the hardest part is whether to strive for simply great color, great body type/feathering, or both...  Because let's just say you have a black hen that just won a major national show.  Exceptional type, feathering, perfect color, etc.  But say you do test breedings on that  so called perfect bird and you find that she'll throw cockerels with off-color, some of the most perfect females you have ever seen, and a few great clear cockerels too?  Do you cull something like that just because she is a carrier?....probably not.  Usually only 1/100 (or more) of cockerels should ever be good enough to go back into a breeding program anyways.  You save back the best of her clear boys and get some darn nice girls to show....  Its kind of a double edged sword.  If you cull simply for color sometimes you can lose the most important factor....type.  I think alot of our major hatcheries have proved that to be true.

wow thanx!!!!!! i cant wait till this spring to try it out!!!!