Blackhead or Histomoniasis case in Chicken

[casportpony]

Glad to hear Sylvia is better!


Regarding blackhead:
http://www.nwtf.org/conservation/bulletins/bulletin_25.pdf


-Kathy

The old name “blackhead disease” is a misnomer because the heads of birds infected with histomoniasis do not turn black.

lol... This was actually one of the 'experts' I had in mind when I wrote that previous post. Yes, it can indeed cause their heads to turn black.

Are there any properly documented pictures that show it?

-Kathy

 

[Bogtown Chick]

I believe in my searches when I scampering around BYC for Sylvia I did come across some photographed and verbal confirmation there was a new darkening or discoloration to some of their birds--Turkeys-- in accordance with the other histomoniasis symptoms.

Here's this:

http://www.poultryhub.org/health/disease/types-of-disease/histomoniasis/

 

[casportpony]

A blue/black color from them being cyanotic I can see, but that is not limited to poultry with blackhead, i have seen that in birds with Marek's, EYP, heart failure and other diseases.

-Kathy

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Well I think your original argument was there is no darkening or discoloration due to blackhead. Chooks4life questioned the NWTF's statement as I'm sure I would as we've come across in our searches the name origin etc. We took a stab at the process at which the darkening happened. Which now we know is just simply cyanosis. (Low o2 sats in the blood) It's as simple as that. Some get it some don't and it seems this researcher/ author is incorrect in his assessment that none get darkening, right? It could be that there could be two different diseases going on at the same time in those birds. Or they develop secondary issues to the primary disease blackhead. There's all sorts of ways to look at it. Idk...

 

[casportpony]

Well I think your original argument was there is no darkening or discoloration due to blackhead. Chooks4life questioned the NWTF's statement as I'm sure I would as we've come across in our searches the name origin etc. We took a stab at the process at which the darkening happened. Which now we know is just simply cyanosis. (Low o2 sats in the blood) It's as simple as that. Some get it some don't and it seems this researcher/ author is incorrect in his assessment that none get darkening, right? It could be that there could be two different diseases going on at the same time in those birds. Or they develop secondary issues to the primary disease blackhead. There's all sorts of ways to look at it. Idk...

All I wanted to see were pictures, I never said that there was no color change.

-Kathy

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Sorry Kathy. I was assuming you didn't believe the darkening was a side effect of BH. Eek. Sorry sorry.

 

[chooks4life]

I've also seen the darkening firsthand, it's not a myth. Didn't happen to most of them, but it happened to some.

We took a stab at the process at which the darkening happened. Which now we know is just simply cyanosis. (Low o2 sats in the blood) It's as simple as that. Some get it some don't and it seems this researcher/ author is incorrect in his assessment that none get darkening, right?

It's possible there was a third type which caused the serious blackening it was originally known for, but was wiped out in WW2 when some seriously dangerous drugs were used against it to ensure more meat turkeys lived to become food for the soldiers.

You're right. My research on BH found multiple diseases can capitalize on the weakness of a BH infected host, (unsurprising of course) and sometimes the parasites that cause BH are not even infected with some of the bacteria etc that cause some symptoms; they can infect everything from the brain to the joints, heart, etc; overall the researchers don't think it's a 'cut and dried' disease in any areas, it's complex and variable.

Quote:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...of_histomoniasis_in_poultry.html?qt=&sc=&alt=

"The origin of the name “blackhead” is obscure and misleading, with only a few birds displaying a cyanotic head."

Yeah, it remains 'obscure and misleading', despite the author reporting the cause for the name... LOL! Someone can't see the forest for the trees. Or maybe they read McMurray's Hatchery info on BH, or the same guy Kathy quoted, and just quoted the info verbatim.

The Merck Manuals are actually 'obscure and misleading' about a few things too, lol, but good enough for the average layperson. They're nowhere close to being in depth about anything much, quite disappointing how shallow they are, as well as being incorrect in some areas.

Over-generalizations function identical to misinformation in many areas. Stating something as a universal truth makes one almost certainly wrong, almost no matter what's being claimed.
Quote: Source: http://www.agbiosecurity.ca/healthybirds/Factsheets/Disease/Histomoniasis.pdf

Quote: "The term “black-head" comes from the cyanotic discoloration of the birds head due to poor circulation in the sick bird."

Source: http://www.fao.org/3/a-t0756e/T0756E08.htm#ch7.3.1.1

Quote: "Antemortem findings :

1. In young turkeys, mortality and morbidity may reach 100 %.
2. Indifference and loss of appetite
3. Depression, drooping wings and closed eyes
4. Cyanotic (black) head
5. Yellow sulphur coloured faeces
6. Blood in faeces
7. Emaciation in older birds"

Differential diagnosis: Salmonellosis, coccidiosis, aspergillosis and trichomoniasis.

Sources and Quotes: Mercia, Leonard S. (1981) Raising Your Own Turkeys, pgs. 70-71 "Symptoms may be droopiness and dark heads..."....Spaulding, C.E. and Clay, Jackie. (2010) Veterinary Guide for Animal Lovers, pgs. 263-26 "the head may become dark blue from cyanosis, thus the name blackhead."

Lots and LOTS of other sources, more reputable than that source Kathy quoted, also agree... Blackhead can cause this darkened appearance. I seriously can't believe Kathy doesn't know this.

Best wishes.

 

[casportpony]

Sorry Kathy. I was assuming you didn't believe the darkening was a side effect of BH. Eek. Sorry sorry.

No worries...

Lots of pictures of livers, cecal pouches, yellow poop (which is *not* always present), but no pictures of the head. I just wanna see some pictures.

-Kathy

 

[chooks4life]

No worries...

Lots of pictures of livers, cecal pouches, yellow poop (which is *not* always present), but no pictures of the head. I just wanna see some pictures.

-Kathy

If I'd owned a camera when mine showed it, I'd have taken some pics. Didn't realize so many people have seen the cyanosis and not recorded it. Probably because it's also a symptom of many other diseases, not indicative in itself as a stand alone symptom... Once you've seen one badly cyanotic face you've seen them all, lol.

 

[casportpony]

Those that know me know I'd be taking tons of pictures if I ever had a poult with histomoniasis and a cyanotic head... Pretty sure the avian pathologist I use would be very interested in them.

FYI, he told me they're doing a study on peafowl and histomoniasis. Can't wait to see that!

-Kathy