Blue Copper and Splash Copper Marans Discussion

[DMRippy]

Quote:
I would LOVE to see them. I am really going to send you more eggs. They are slacking. Most of my birds are right now. I have a little Blue cockerel I am growing out. So far he has nice copper, DARKER blue and even some lacing. He looks interesting.... I don't think I have had one his color before. My blue roo just died... no reason was just dead one day. I am going to use the Black Vicki suggested for a good bit. I will let you know when they pick back up.

 

[desertmarcy]

Marcy, I keep remembering little things from the past so will post as I can. The old Poultry Books and the Old Time breeders always said to use a male in the color you would like the young to end up being. I would use a BC male if he were from a Blue Copper breeding but would not use a BC copper from pure BC. It would be ok to use a BC female over a splash or Lighter Blue Copper male.

We can forget most of the Genetic formulas when it comes to Marans as they are two scattered bred to breed true regardless of how they are bred.

Don, I brought the 4 Blue Coppers I have left over to some pens in the shade this afternoon and took photos of 3 of them. One I will cull for sure so didn't photograph him. I would like to know if you think any of these are useful. I have dozens of Blue Copper pullets and hen to choose from and can do some single mating. Just not set up to do a lot of single mating. I did raise some of the Black Coppers out of Black to Blue matings this year and have 3 of those left. I looked through them and only one has no white underfluff. He also has nice type and good size but has a halo on his hackle feathers. I will try to take photos of him tomorrow to post as I ran out of daylight today. It is still very hot here so I have to carry birds across the yard to some portable pens I set in the shade of a big Eucalyptus tree. Unfortunately, in the morning, those pens will be in the sun so I will have to move everything or wait until afternoon again.

Why do you say not to use a male from pure BC breeding? Because that is what I have been doing, lacking a nice Blue male. And this is the first year I have raised any Blacks from my Blues.

OK, let me have it---if they are all unworthy, so be it:

Cockerel #83 first. This one is the only one with no color on his breast but he lacks any kind of lacing. He was hatched 4/6 so is 5 months old now. Assume he has gone through an adult molt. He has one white primary feather on each wing. His comb is off his neck like it should be, but the points are poor and the blade tilts a bit. Nice slope to his back, wide legs. 2 toes on his left foot are somewhat fused but not bad. I had to cull one this year that had two completely fused toes, first time I've seen that. His overall color is too light and he has plenty of white underfluff.





Will post the others separately.

 

[desertmarcy]

Here is cockerel #13. He was also hatched 4/6, so same age as #83 in previous post. This one has some breast copper color but not a huge amount. He doesn't have any solid white wing feathers, but a lot of the wing feathers are speckled with white, like white pepper was sprinkled on them. Also a lot of white underfluff. I don't like that his comb follows his neck, is that a deal breaker? Also not sure what to make of that tail feather that is sticking up. This one also has those pale copper colored hackle feathers like the previous one.

 

[desertmarcy]

Here's the last one, #91. He is one week older than the other two, hatched 3/30. He would have been culled last year, but I kept hearing people say to use an overly colored male to get color on the pullets. So I kept him, but now he appear to be developing a squirrel tail, and to me he is looking unbalanced (too much bird in front of his legs) so thinking he should be a cull, what do you think? I've already culled 11 Blue Copper cockerels. Dang, doesn't this one look ORANGE!

 

[snowbird]

Marcy, # 83 appears to have white under color and the white tail Coverts. #13 has the same faults.

#91 could be used with female with very little Copper if need be but like you say he is unbalanced and I would refrain from breeding him. Does he have white under color and the white tail coverts.

Talking about not using a Pure BC male in this breeding. I like to use a male that is made up of some kind of Blue blood somewhere. A BC from the Blue matings would be acceptable.

 

[desertmarcy]

Marcy, # 83 appears to have white under color and the white tail Coverts. #13 has the same faults.

#91 could be used with female with very little Copper if need be but like you say he is unbalanced and I would refrain from breeding him. Does he have white under color and the white tail coverts.

Talking about not using a Pure BC male in this breeding. I like to use a male that is made up of some kind of Blue blood somewhere. A BC from the Blue matings would be acceptable.

Yes Don, they all have white under color. I have some Black Coppers that do not and used one to breed most of my Black and Blue Copper females this year but am still getting the white on the Blues. All the pullets have it, too. I just don't know how to get rid of it. So yes, they all have faults but do you think any of them could be used? I will take photos of the one Black from my Black-Blue mating today and post and see what you think of him. I have 3 of those left but the other two have white undercolor and high tails.

I understand you like to use a male that has some Blue blood, but WHY? What difference does it make, that is what I want to know. Are there some genetic modifiers coming from the Blues that are needed?

 

[snowbird]

Marcy, I have a large number of old Poultry Books and the very best are by Morley Jull and they all say when at all possible when mixing Varieties of fowl to always use a Male in the Color you would like the young to look like. The Male has more to do with the color than the female does. The female has more to do with the size though. This is the way I have always done the breedings in all breeds I have worked with.

 

[snowbird]

Marcy, regarding the #91 male going the way of Squirrel tail. Run your hand down the length of his back and see if it gets more narrow at the base of the tail. They should be kinda wide the full length of the Back.

 

[snowbird]

Marcy, Using the pure BC continually is why you are getting the Reddish Orange Wing Bays on the males also.

 

[desertmarcy]

Marcy, Using the pure BC continually is why you are getting the Reddish Orange Wing Bays on the males also.

I guess that is a reason to try to use at least one of these young Blue Copper cockerels. The best one, which came from a different sire, was the one I culled because of his horrible twisted comb. Guess I should have kept him. But I didn't get many offspring from that sire (he was also pure BC) because he became ill. He is fully recovered now. I'm thinking of trying him again on a couple of Blue C. hens that have the absolute straightest combs. I know combs don't count for a whole lot, but they are such an obvious stare-you-in-the-face feature of the bird, I am trying to breed away from the twisting.