Blue/red Orps?? Genetics & possible projects?

[Sonoran Silkies]

Everyone has birds for their own reasons--we all enjoy different aspects of our birds. Lildinkem, why does it matter to you if someone wants to work on their own project? How does it hurt your birds and your goals?

You obviously don't care for projects until they are far, far along in their development. I don't know of any project that starts half-way to completion--they all start small. And that project in its initial stages may or may not interest others.

Look at showgirls, the initial idea of crossing a naked neck with a silkie seems rather odd, and I am sure that many who now find the variety very attractive did not find the original idea or the original cross very attractive. Generations later they have a huge following.

There is a sense of accomplishment in any project or endeavor when a vision is realized--partially or completely--it doesn't really matter whether the project is creating a new variety or breed, building a new coop, painting a picture, writing a novel, baking a cake or even breeding a stunning bird of an already recognised breed and variety. Why would only some of these be worthy goals?

 

[lildinkem]

Sonoran Silkies This is a place to compare ideas and thoughts. You might not like view.
Plus, I think you missed my point.
It takes EFFORT and ENERGY to make it work. That means LOTS of chicks. I personally know I would not commit that type of time & resources, in this economy on starting a variety of chicken, that you can buy and import from the UK.
It is your choice to manage your flock like you want. It is my choice to voice a second way of thinking about tackling the same goal.
Sonoran Silkies Who' said I don't have my own Project? Hmmmmm

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I will disagree here--it is NOT all about getting there--certainly that is a goal, but as others have said, the knowledge learned along the way, the experience gained and the sense of accomplishment at various stages are HUGE. Tgrlily is using a project as a teaching experience for her son--that alone is an experience and lesson and knowledge that will last their lifetimes.


As to your later comments about selective breeding--that sometimes works--when the necessary genes are present. But breeding a new colour strictly by selection can take as long or (probably) longer and require hatching as many chicks as cross-breeding. If the necessary genes are not present in a breed, the only way to acquire them IS to crossbreed. If I wanted to create a BBR (a world-wide recognised abbreviation, I believe) silkie (and no, I reallly don't find that a particularly interesting project), the only way I could do so would be to cross to another breed. Finding a silkie with the necessary e+ would be like searching for a needle in a field full of haystacks.

 

[lildinkem]

Sonoran Silkies Then your really just talking about raising LOTS of chicks, just cause it's a fun experience? LOLOL
If you are encouraging someone to raise hundreds of chicks to eventually get some Red ones, apparently just for fun, GO FOR IT.
I am just trying to point out a cheaper, easier, and more likely a positive result SOONER.
AND THIS IS MY OPINION Sonoran Silkies, and I have every right to voice, in a nice manner.
And I really do hope tgrlily does eventually raise Red Orps. Sonoran Silkies When you said somehow I am hurt from this. HuH? How do I gain or loose? I don't not sell ANYTHING. How do I loose Sonoran Silkies?

 

[hinkjc]

Buying a bird from another country is no guarantee you are getting a perfect bird. I agree with Krys - there are no perfect birds. You could still find many years of work ahead of you to produce the right specimen/flock that is based on American standards of perfection. I'm not sure I see the benefit. You have no way to see how they are breeding or to know what they sent you is truly what it is. There is so much opportunity for hidden genes that you wouldn't know the impact until you start breeding it. I have heard of folks getting junk from overseas and basically having to start from scratch anyway. What's the difference? You have gained nothing and can easily be taken advantage of from someone who will never have to respond to you.

 

[Krys109uk]

By attempting to create a new color this way, you don't have to import.
And still ONLY use Orps for breeding. NO OUTSIDE ORP BLOOD.

Of course it is always best to stay within breed if one can. I'm sorry to be rude but your suggestion wouldn't work. If one has a nice buff orp it doesn't look like that bird & if one does have that bird it hardly what I'd describe as an Orp. That bird does not have the genes necessary to make a dark red Orp.....genes don't just come to be in a bird by themselves, they have to be put there. using the bird in the pic & breeding to other similar birds would be like trying to make a cake without buying all the ingredients & then hoping it would work out fine.

I outcrossed to a rhodie about 3 years ago & the red almost Orps I'm using this year are a much darker red & good deel closer to Orp type than the bird in that pic.

It is for you do what you like with your birds.....
There's absolutely no reason whatsoever why I shouldn't do precisely what I like with my own birds, just because you think it's a bad plan.​

 

[lildinkem]

Krys109uk
I had a RIR cockerel ( Rollo ) hit up one of my Buff pullets this spring. I have 3 cockerels and 1 pullet. Are you saying I have the beginnings of a Red Orp project?
Don't get me wrong, for those who know what their up against, I know you can get a desired look within a 5 or so generations. I think for the time and effort you can find a reputable breeder, thru clubs and networking to get some birds ready to go from the UK. And there are no gaurantees in life. The birds can die in shipping. When dealing with the right people, it might be a viable option. It is just another idea. That's all.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I am not encouraging anyone to do anything--what I am doing is not discouraging someone from a goal they have set for themselves. You didn't start out with "here's another way of accomplishing your goal." You started out with a strong insinuation that projects are inappropriate, and implying that the genetics advise given by a number of genetics experts is "a bad way of accomplishing your goal, do this instead." If someone has the interest and the upfront $$$ to import birds, I am all for them following their heart/interest. And if someone wishes to cross-breed to achieve their goals, I am all for that. And if someone wants to stick with only recognised breeds and varieties for those breeds, that is fine too.

By the way, I believe the original question was about breeding blue-laced red orps, not red orps.

I never meant to imply that you would be financially hurt; I have no idea of who sells or does not sell birds, chicks or eggs; my question is why it matters emotionally to you that tgrlily is asking about how to breed from a bird that she acquired and finds interesting?

 

[lildinkem]

Sonoran Silkies I suggest if you have anything else to say to me you send a PM.
I am not going to continue to plug up this thread.
Far as what I believe. This person has a couple of mixed birds. They might be Orps, but there are far to few to take on breeding a new breed project without lots of effort, money and chicks.

 

[Katy]

All this knowledge from lildinkem who on February 4, 2009 posted this.....Hi I am Bill & am new to raising chickens.


Does anyone else see/smell something odd here?