Board of Health against quarantine (oh, the irony)

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

i don’t agree with the surprise inspections either but it’s written very plainly in the bylaws for OPs town.

as for the rest of your post, we (for the most part) get to choose where we live. if you don’t like how tax money is spent in a certain town, you can vote with your hard earned dollars and take them to another town that aligns better with the way you want to live.

this isn’t a hard concept at all. emotional responses to black and white issues rarely help.

Hey I get where you're coming from (and that's why I made sure to check chicken keeping laws before I moved to my new house), but it doesn't make the laws in OP's town any less silly. Taxpayers may not have even gotten to vote on whether their money went towards this specific thing or not.

100% agree with you that it's important to know the laws before keeping chickens, but my comment was strictly about how silly these laws are to begin with.

Edit: I also want to add that some parts of the law may not be as black and white as you describe. I don't think most people would expect that quarantining a sick hen in a garage would cause problems with the law saying the hens must be confined. Most people also might not expect a garage to count as part of the house. There are some grey areas here.

 

[DickMidnight]

Hey I get where you're coming from (and that's why I made sure to check chicken keeping laws before I moved to my new house), but it doesn't make the laws in OP's town any less silly. Taxpayers may not have even gotten to vote on whether their money went towards this specific thing or not.

100% agree with you that it's important to know the laws before keeping chickens, but my comment was strictly about how silly these laws are to begin with.

Edit: I also want to add that some parts of the law may not be as black and white as you describe. I don't think most people would expect that quarantining a sick hen in a garage would cause problems with the law saying the hens must be confined. Most people also might not expect a garage to count as part of the house. There are some grey areas here.

i’ve admitted that they’re pretty bad rules. especially the surprise inspection part of it.

i’ve developed HOAs and sat on boards to come up with rules and bylaws. coming up with these rules so they’re effective is really hard. if you don’t want your rules abused, it’s often better to lean towards restrictive and unfair

there really isn’t gray area. they covered that with the section that reads “chickens must be confined to the coop or henhouse at all times”. there isn’t any wiggle room there.

all that being said, i understand life doesn’t fit into a nice neat box. i’m not above going against the rules. it’s just when you get caught, crying about the rule you broke isn’t the answer.

 

[fox623]

Hopefully they'll allow you to use a portable coop or chicken tractor under certain circumstances.

Our coop and run total 68 square feet. That should be OK, right? I like the idea of them being able to explore, but it's not worth upsetting the town and ending up having to surrender them. At this point, they're family.

the minute you allow cages in a garage for “temporary” housing, you’re gonna have people abuse that rule.

My boyfriend and I were talking about this the other night. I think that we may petition the town to allow 30-day quarantines. I wasn't there while the inspector was at our house, but it seems that her hands were kind of tied by the existing laws. Again, my boyfriend (who I adore) can be a bit of a know-it-all, so that may have been part of it.

as for the rest of your post, we (for the most part) get to choose where we live. if you don’t like how tax money is spent in a certain town, you can vote with your hard earned dollars and take them to another town that aligns better with the way you want to live.

Something like that... I moved here to be with my boyfriend about a year and a half ago, after living in a 350-square-foot condo in downtown Boston for roughly six years. My boyfriend has lived here for more than a decade, and his son is nine-years-old with an Individualized Education Program (IEP), so a move in the near future is unlikely.

 

[DickMidnight]

My boyfriend and I were talking about this the other night. I think that we may petition the town to allow 30-day quarantines. I wasn't there while the inspector was at our house, but it seems that her hands were kind of tied by the existing laws.

this is what i’d do as well. the inspector did her job, but ultimately your fight isn’t with her. id be looking to have a few aspects of their bylaws and process changed, personally.

Something like that... I moved here to be with my boyfriend about a year and a half ago, after living in a 350-square-foot condo in downtown Boston for roughly six years. My boyfriend has lived here for more than a decade, and his son is nine-years-old with an Individualized Education Program (IEP), so a move in the near future is unlikely.

none of my comments have been intended to admonish the way you’ve handled the situation. i hope that’s been clear, and if it hasn’t, then i apologize. i think your outlook on the whole situation is great, and you handled it as well as you could have. it seems like you’re gonna make lemonade from lemons in your new home. i’m sure his son is gonna love growing up with chickens and fresh eggs

all too often in this area of the forum, when people are on the wrong side of the rules where they live, the responses are way too emotional.

fair or unfair, you have to follow the rules or you have to work to change them. breaking them and then being upset about the consequences doesn’t do anyone any good.

 

[McChooky]

My suggestion is keep a chicken tractor at a friends house for emergencies only.

 

[fox623]

this is what i’d do as well. the inspector did her job, but ultimately your fight isn’t with her. id be looking to have a few aspects of their bylaws and process changed, personally.

none of my comments have been intended to admonish the way you’ve handled the situation. i hope that’s been clear, and if it hasn’t, then i apologize. i think your outlook on the whole situation is great, and you handled it as well as you could have. it seems like you’re gonna make lemonade from lemons in your new home. i’m sure his son is gonna love growing up with chickens and fresh eggs

all too often in this area of the forum, when people are on the wrong side of the rules where they live, the responses are way too emotional.

fair or unfair, you have to follow the rules or you have to work to change them. breaking them and then being upset about the consequences doesn’t do anyone any good.

I did not receive it as an admonition.

You are right. Rules are rules; it's just a matter of what we are willing to risk. Living in Boston, I would break the rules of my HOA by keeping plants (and a compost container) on my roof deck. The worst-case scenario was throwing away $50 in plants and some compost. In this case, living beings and my soon-to-be stepson’s emotional attachment to them are at stake.

My suggestion is keep a chicken tractor at a friends house for emergencies only.

Ha! I was the first in my friend group to move to the suburbs, but they're doing ok in our bathroom. The dogs are super interested in whatever’s in there (lots and lots of chicken poop).

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I've not finished reading all the responses, so I apologize if this has already been said (I have a short lunch) - but the "Right to Farm" laws around the nation are intended to protect ongoing commercial farmiing operations against the vaguaraies of "nuisance law", they are not meant to protect start up back yard keepers at non-commercial scale (or new start up commercial farming, for that matter). You might also find this site useful

We live in a provincial Massachusetts town that boasts a cadre of arduous regulations to gatekeep hobby farming. To get a permit, households must submit GIS plans (from the town’s website, of course), along with a plan of keeping and maintenance. Once those are approved (by the Board of Health, Department of Conservation, and Zoning Board), a plan with the location must be submitted and approved. Once the permit was granted (after a MONTH), I assumed we were fine. Yesterday, the town sent an inspector from the Board of Health to ensure that we put it where we said we would and to see that we are storing the food where we said we would (garage) and disposing of manure where we said we would (compost). The Board of Health inspector saw our quarantining hens in the garage and informed us that we violated the following bylaws: a) "No poultry shall be allowed to forage, stray, or roam unrestricted at the premises or elsewhere; hens must at all times be confined to the coop/henhouse and run"; and b) "Manure shall be stored not less than 50’ from abutting front, side, and rear property lines." My boyfriend is a doctor and explained to the inspector (who has never worked in healthcare) that quarantine doesn't work if the animals are living in the same place and that our new girls will be in the permitted coop as soon as possible. She told us that it was not acceptable because keeping them in our garage violated the rule that "No domestic animal as herein defined shall be housed within any part of a residential dwelling." We also had no idea that we would need to move our compost pile (which is approximately 10 feet from our neighbor's yard and has been since before I met my boyfriend) JUST because it now has chicken manure. It's a $50/day fine per offense.

TLDR: How hard is it to invoke the "Right to Farm" in Massachusetts? Is it OK if our quarantine is curtailed? They've been kept separate since 9/18 (nine days as of today) and all have been vaccinated for Marek's.

 

[cassie]

We live in a provincial Massachusetts town that boasts a cadre of ardu

ous regulations to gatekeep hobby farming. To get a permit, households must submit GIS plans (from the town’s website, of course), along with a plan of keeping and maintenance. Once those are approved (by the Board of Health, Department of Conservation, and Zoning Board), a plan with the location must be submitted and approved. Once the permit was granted (after a MONTH), I assumed we were fine. Yesterday, the town sent an inspector from the Board of Health to ensure that we put it where we said we would and to see that we are storing the food where we said we would (garage) and disposing of manure where we said we would (compost). The Board of Health inspector saw our quarantining hens in the garage and informed us that we violated the following bylaws: a) "No poultry shall be allowed to forage, stray, or roam unrestricted at the premises or elsewhere; hens must at all times be confined to the coop/henhouse and run"; and b) "Manure shall be stored not less than 50’ from abutting front, side, and rear property lines." My boyfriend is a doctor and explained to the inspector (who has never worked in healthcare) that quarantine doesn't work if the animals are living in the same place and that our new girls will be in the permitted coop as soon as possible. She told us that it was not acceptable because keeping them in our garage violated the rule that "No domestic animal as herein defined shall be housed within any part of a residential dwelling." We also had no idea that we would need to move our compost pile (which is approximately 10 feet from our neighbor's yard and has been since before I met my boyfriend) JUST because it now has chicken manure. It's a $50/day fine per offense.

TLDR: How hard is it to invoke the "Right to Farm" in Massachusetts? Is it OK if our quarantine is curtailed? They've been kept separate since 9/18 (nine days as of today) and all have been vaccinated for Marek's.

Just a comment. I learned this when I was putting in a goat dairy years ago. Just because an official, any official, tells you what the law is, that does not mean that is what the law actually is. Insist that they give you statute numbers. Then you can go to the law library and check it out yourself. I have found that the reference librarians at the law library are usually very helpful. Some garden supplies sell bagged chicken manure. You might buy a bag and ask the inspector if it is legal or if it requires special handling.

 

[fox623]

I forgot to post, but we began integrating them on Sunday morning (a day short of 30, but we only have my boyfriend’s son on weekends). The girls initially self-separated, with the two Salmon Faverolles on the lower level and the two CCLs in the coop. By this morning, all were eating together, peacefully.

 

[Ozarkoak]

So strange. Like a different world. I really enjoy reading about how things work in different places and how polar opposite one place can be to the other.