Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

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WHAT IS SINGLE MATING? [/b]The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes
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1919
In certain breeds the standard decrees that the characteristics
of the male and female should be different, which necessitates
double-mating, explained below. Where the standard for the
two sexes is practically the same, then single mating is sufficient.
By single mating I mean the breeding of both sexes as exhibition
specimens from one mating or single pen of birds.

WHAT IS DOUBLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes
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1919
Double-mating means the mating of two pens, one to produce
exhibition cockerels and the other exhibition pullets. This process
of breeding has done much to spoil many good old breeds, for
few little men have accommodation sufficient to keep two pens.
Many poultry fanciers give this double-mating question some
hard knocks, but we have only the Club Standards to blame. When
a new breed comes into being, the first desire of the faddists is to
draw up a standard that is hard to breed to. They contend that
it is better to have a breed that is difficult to obtain high-class
specimens of, than where we can easily breed winners. As things
are at present, double-mating is necessary in many breeds, and
I leave it at that.
In the case of laced varieties, such as the beautiful Gold and
Silver Laced Wyandottes, we have perforce to adopt the double mating
principles. If we mated the Palace winning Cock to the
Palace winning Pullet we should breed birds that were of very
inferior quality. By fitting up a cockerel-breeding pen and a pullet breeding
pen our chances are excellent. In the cockerel-breeding
pen of any variety the male will be a tip-top show specimen and
his mates females that are not show birds, but merely breeders
likely to throw high-class cockerels when mated to the exhibition
male. The pullets from this mating will, of course, be " duds”
and not fit for show purposes. The females in the pullet-breeding
pen will all be first-class exhibition birds and the male not a show
bird, but a breeder most likely to breed tip-top exhibition pullets.
The cockerels from this mating will be " duds " and unfit for the
show bench. The whole modus operandi can be thinned down to
this :—The cockerel-breeding male must possess all the necessary
characteristics to breed exhibition cockerels, whilst the pullet breeding
male must boast of those characteristics that will go to
breed exhibition pullets. The system is not so complicated as it
would appear at first sight and is interesting to follow out, but there
must, of course, be many " wasters " in the progeny—whether
male or female respectively. In many cases fanciers are satisfied
with breeding one sex only and winning honors with same. They
specialize in pullets or cockerels, keeping the pullet-breeders or
cockerel-breeders only as the case may be. This naturally does
not entail so much work as would be necessary if the two sorts
were bred.


Chris
 
Bob - thanks for sharing that story. Sounds like a wonderful visit from someone who knows her poultry! You must have been proud - as well you should be! It's so nice to have hard work recognized! Kudos to you - and...keep up the good work!
 
Even though she is a person who deals with commerical birds and hobby farms ect it is nice that she enjoys seeing progress made. I want to encourge you who are trying to improve the Delaware breed to hang in there. It may take you 10 to 20 years to reach your goals. Heck you guys got me interested in old breeds such as the New Hampshires which I still can not beleive I am going to have on this poultry plant. But this is what Frank Reese wanted me to do and I have done it and we will all benifit from this thread. If I can just paint the picutre what a Heritage Rhode Island Red Large fowl is to many of the beginners. It is the hardest thing I have ever done in chickens. How would you like to be in the shoes of a judge that disqualifies a production red when it was shown as a Rhode Island Red and has to explain why or what they got. It is a super bad feeling when you find out you dont have the real thing. Its like when I found out at age seven there was not Santa Clause. Both feelings are the same. Just think next year when she shows up here to stick the chickens she is going to see the old fashion New Hampsires, Barred Plymouth Rocks and little Dark Cornish bantams. Look forward to the challange as I should be retired and have the time to devote to the three breeds. bob
 
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Nice helpful post Chris. I will do most anything to avoid double matings, but sometimes there is no other way.

Bob You breed birds the old fashion way and the old fashioned way works very well, if a person has the knowledge and eye. Fred Jeffrey was one of the only old timers I know of that might have used a chart, but the chart was in his head. He knew chicken genetics and also had the "eye". I see a lot of genetic formulas online, but the people who post those don't seem to know how to make a chicken that meets the Standard. They might be good at making great dogs, sheep, cattle etc, but not too many can make a good chicken for some reason.

When it is getting close to spring and breeding season I just look at the birds and visually decide who I'm going to marry up....as I call it. I have had people tell me that I was lying about the birds I said I use to get a particular flock. When they say that I know they don't know a lot about breeding poultry. My suggestion to people getting into this is to find the oldest person you can that is not senile and has demonstrated that they can produce good birds CONSISTENTLY and pick their brain to find out how to get the "eye" and what to do after that. Most of use have no idea what is in the genetic package we call a chicken. How it looks does not always mean that that is what it is.

BTW: Don't you know you aren't supposed to be talking about ducks? Even though you started this thread.
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I know that this isn't going to end up being a duck thread. hahaha. Where did you get the dark Cornish bantams? Did you know that Bob Jones and I show together and he is one of the best Cornish guys around. He has over 400 young at this place right now...and you know it isn't easy to get babies from those guys.

Walt
 
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Not really.....I have seen several posts about what to do first, but I haven't seen anything to give us guidance beyond that. I can just see me now with a Yard Full o' Rocks (pardon the pun) and my DW hollering that I have too many

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Walt, Chris, Bob.....can you give us some guidance on what to do after we get started? How many to keep and who? Cockerels? Pullets? Etc.....

I know all of us have a limited amount of space with which to work

Thanks!!!
 
Walt I have the eye because I traveled as a young boy with the Quickest eye in the west. I think today I see things out of the side of my eye and then when I look at the bird the wheels in my head start working on a mating. The quickest eye in the west could not beed his way out of a wet paper bag. But he could come into your chicken house with a flash light at night and buy the best birds off of you to show. He was a string man from the 1960s Does anyone know except Walt who this old timer was??? He lived in Centralia Washington

Sorry to talk about ducks on this site. I did start a thread on this web site and it has gotten some great pictures on it. Walt look at the Pastel Drake from two years ago from the Foleys in Ky.

In regards to the question you asked Scott. Let me tell a question I asked Ralph Sturegeon 22 years ago as I was at the level you are today.

Ralph wrote me back on a three by five card this statement.

Get the best male you got then get three females and put them in three seperate coops. Rotate this super male with each female every three days. Give him a rest on the fourth day. Toe punch the chicks to the mating of the females. Then if pen two female produces the best chicks mate this female back to the old male again the next year. Keep this going year in and year out till you breed up your strain to your ideal look to the standard. He told me to learn how to breed for genes in my Reds and build the chicken one step at a time.

I did this one year with two Rhode Island Red Roosters. I had a male with a perfect head but a short body. I had a male with a perfect body but a crapy head. I saw a female out of the corner of my eye that had it all. Six point comb brick shape ect. I mated the best male to her then the other male to her and then the next year I crossed the best pullets from male one to the best ckl from male two and I produced the most perfect birck shape male I ever rasied down here. We callled him number 68. He won champion Red at Conersville Ind show about 12 years ago. It was this idea that Mr. Sturegeon gave me that produced this great male and then I was off to the races.

Take the best you have and start with what you have untill something better comes along. Dont forget you are first in line for the Canada Colubian Plymouth Rocks. I think once you get them you will be ten light years ahead in the breeding program . We just have to be patient and try to get them to you. Remember breeding is a segment of time. Take three year steps to up breed a trait and your strain. Ralph use to say it takes a life time to reach your goals. You are young and have all the time ahead of you. bob
 
Bob, you're an inspiration. All of you guys are! I wish I had someone up here that could take me under their wing. I don't think there's any old fashioned poultry men up in the AK. Not a real practical place for raising chickens, I guess.
 
http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id61.html

Scott
I went into a trance and fired off this rough draf on How I would get started with Colubian Plymouth Rocks I posted it on my web site so I can go back and edit it in a few days. What you are faced with is no different then what I will be faced next year when I get started with New Hampsire as I never held a bird in my life. I have some wisdom with barred rocks as I have breed large fowl Whites for 22 years and had crossed up the barred male to one of my white females a few years ago.

I will do the same with the Dark Conish bantams. I never held one of them but I have wanted to have them all my live. The way I will get started is is in two pair or three pairs with the cornish. I will inbreed the heck out of them untill I get them to the level I want. I can go back to Frank Reese and get new blood for the New Hamps. I can go back to Kathy for the barred rock blood and in the Dark Cornish I can go back to Noah Webster or Jerry McCarty for the new blood for these bantams. I have never had to go back to get new blood in twenty years. I have never breed my birds into a corner. You got the book that Mr. Stugeon wrote read it and read it till you can recite it. I did. When I need guidance I just think about him. When I start breeding these Dark Cornish I will consult Jerry McCarty who is a master of this breed.

I watch Ice Road Truckers every week on TV. I would like to move to Alaska but I would frezze to death. When I was a kid in the Air Force in 1969 I put down Germany, England and Alaska as my over seas wish list. I figued the computer or some sergent would send me to Alaska. Wrong. My first assignment was Lakenheath England my next was Bitburg Germany. But I wanted to go to Alaska. So much for that time of my life. Dont worry if you got the pasison in Alaska you can raise what ever you want. I did it in Old English country down here on the Gulf of Mexico. No buddy can raise good large fowl in the south its to hot they said. I did. Its all a state of mind.

Well now I got to figure how I am going to get Dicks Columbian Plymouth Rocks out of Canada into the USA.

It will happen. It just going may take six more months. Never give up just keep trying. bob
 
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