Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

I did show cocker spaniels. Talk about expensive. That was not nearly as bad as the people and politics you had to put up with.

I know. I was in collies for 15 years. Great thing about poultry, the people are so nice and helpful. Plus, you can eat your mistakes, smile.
I also like not having all the health clearances and being able to get to one's goal faster. Harder things are all the sex-linked genes and having specific ratios for color written in the Standard. Things that throw me off center: all the color crossing and messing around with the blue gene. I wonder if chicken peopel will run into the color related SINE health issues which dog people are just now discovering? Or maybe chickens are set up so they neevr get the blue so concentrated they have to deal with that. Or poultry plain don't have SINE issues .
Onward and Upward,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Anyone experienced with eWh S/S Co/Co poultry. Was looking at the chicks tonight. They are that lovely, correct Light Sussex yellow. Believe all 6 to be pullets. On several of the chicks, where the hackle will eventualy be, the yellow has a slighty darker shade of yellow to it. Do you know what this portends? Something I should be hoping to see... or not?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[lualshannon]

Good Morning,

I wanted to share a small part of an article written by, Karen Davis P.H.D., who is an Avian Specialist.

I believe, if it wasn't for the chickens' ability to lay large number of eggs, they would have been one of the most sought after, and expensive pet animals. In my personal experience, I found them to have much more intelligence than they are given credit for.
I hope you enjoy the article below.

Lual


Capacity for Pain and Suffering
Birds including chickens experience pain and suffering the same as humans and other mammals. Like mammals, chickens and other birds have nociceptors-pain receptors. Behavioral evidence supports neurophysiological evidence of chickens' ability to suffer pain, fear, and other forms of distress. In "Pain in Birds," Michael Gentle writes: "Comparing pain in birds with mammals, it is clear that, with regard to the anatomical, physiological, and behavioral parameters measured, there are no major differences and therefore the ethical considerations normally afforded to mammals should be extended to birds" (Gentle, 1992, 235).
In "Behavioral and Physiological Responses to Pain in the Chicken," Michael Gentle concludes: "The close similarity between birds and mammals in their physiological and behavioural response to painful stimuli argues for a common sensory and emotional experience." Chickens' beaks and skin are full of pain-sensitive nerves. Debeaking and feather-pulling cause pain which has been characterized both behaviorally and physiologically in chickens. To those who ask whether the combs of roosters and hens can feel pain the answer is yes. In comb pinch tests, for example, chickens show "active avoidance behaviour . . . and vigorous escape attempts involving jumping, wing flapping and occasionally calling".

Cognition
Science shows that chickens have complex cognitive (mental) capabilities. In The Development of Brain and Behaviour in the Chickens , avian specialist Lesley J. Rogers says that the chicken has "a complex nervous system designed to form a multitude of memories and to make complex decisions", and that "with increased knowledge of the behaviour and cognitive abilities of the chicken has come the realization that the chicken is not an inferior species to be treated merely as a food source"

Conclusion
Wild and feral chickens raise their families and fend for themselves the same as other birds. Field studies show that domesticated chickens resume a natural state of existence that may be masked but not extinguished by the domestic environment. One example is the feral chickens of Riverbend in North Charleston, South Carolina. These birds left the plantations on which they were originally placed to live independently in the surrounding woods. White leghorn hens rescued from battery cages instinctually roost in the branches of trees and bushes, like their wild relatives and ancestors. It is increasingly recognized that chickens are hardy, social, and intelligent birds and that "birds have cognitive capacities equivalent to those of mammals, even primates"

 

[NYREDS]

Ok, here is the PDF file of the Southern States feeds for small and specialty flocks:

http://www.southernstates.com/docs/brochures/poultryfeedingguide.pdf

I am confused about all these different protein levels. Folk discuss 18%-21% , which is better, what to add to what. This makes them grow faster than that. This makes bigger birds than that. How does this all fit together? It's only2 percentage points

.
In dogs, I know it is very possible to grow a puppy too fast and have structural issues and misshapen skeletons. I numbered the questions to arrange the letter so it would be easier to respond. Hope that is ok.

1. Do poultry get mishappen structure poultry from feeding too rich?
2.How fast growing is too fast?
3.How much "meat is too much meat to put on a growing chick of a certain breed?

I read Cornish fall over dead if they grow too fast. I know Sussex faint if their feed is too rich. Then the condition disappears when the protein level is lowered. (Outram or Sharpe). We discuss how to jury-rig these commercial feeds for our flocks...however, these companies spent boo-coo monies getting the formulation just right.

4. So where is the middle of the road? (as Bob B. says).
5.Do we haveto become Master Mixers of custom feed to be successful in birds? ( feeding is much easier in dogs).
6.What happens if the wrong sex chicken eats the other sexes feed? 7.Will it hurt layers to eat Rock N Rooster Booster?
8.How long can the hens eat chick starter?
9.Will it affect their next laying cycle or throw them into a moult?

I have looked for answers to these questions but all I can find is discussions with various points of view.

10. Is there any one good general answer that will suffice for a beginner who wants to get some kind of feeding schedule settled so I came move on to learning other areas?

Thanks for sharing,
Best,
Karen

Karen, I don't mean to offend but you tend to over think things. I believe you may be aware of this.
You absolutely don't have to be master mixers of custom feed to be successful with birds. Any quality brand of feed appropriate to what you're raising will be just fine. As I've said before, I feed a 22% protein grower crumble from hatch to departure. With this I feed a little scratch [wheat & cracked corn] so my overall protein is probably about 20 %. I use a bit of bread, bird seed or ground beef for cage training birds I plan to show but those things don't comprise a major part of their diet.
I've never tried feeding the really high protein feeds eg 28% + so I'll have to take people's word for their being bad outcomes related to such feeds. In the past I've fed lower protein, 14-16% & I feel my birds do better on hte higher protein that I feed now but I know people who feed lower protein than I do who turn out good birds.
There's no magic formula or perfect feeding plan. You could drive yourself nuts looking for one. I think if you feed a good quality basic ration you'll be fine whichever feed you decide on. I do know that you'll do better if you pick a feeding plan & stick to it than you will if you're constantly changing feeds & feeding plans.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Karen, I don't mean to offend but you tend to over think things. I believe you may be aware of this.
You absolutely don't have to be master mixers of custom feed to be successful with birds. Any quality brand of feed appropriate to what you're raising will be just fine. As I've said before, I feed a 22% protein grower crumble from hatch to departure. With this I feed a little scratch [wheat & cracked corn] so my overall protein is probably about 20 %. I use a bit of bread, bird seed or ground beef for cage training birds I plan to show but those things don't comprise a major part of their diet.
I've never tried feeding the really high protein feeds eg 28% + so I'll have to take people's word for their being bad outcomes related to such feeds. In the past I've fed lower protein, 14-16% & I feel my birds do better on hte higher protein that I feed now but I know people who feed lower protein than I do who turn out good birds.
There's no magic formula or perfect feeding plan. You could drive yourself nuts looking for one. I think if you feed a good quality basic ration you'll be fine whichever feed you decide on. I do know that you'll do better if you pick a feeding plan & stick to it than you will if you're constantly changing feeds & feeding plans.

Another good point and I agree, a routine/scheduled feeding/tending is the best for rearing all living things, all living critters are habitual/develop habits.

Jeff

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote: Ask yourself this question. Would someone who has won three grand Champion Large Fowl of the shows at major shows against major top large fowl competition have chickens in the area of Rhode Island Reds that would even resemble at hatchery Rhode Island Red? No way.

Next when I typed this it was kind of Tough and Cheek when I did it to see if anyone would comment about it not in your way or concern which was correct to ask.. If I would say that this Mohawk line which I named twenty years ago was the top winning line in the South East United states and one bird beat a white rock large fowl cockerel from the mid west that has won himself two or three grand champion large fowls of big mid west shows. I saw this great male at the Newnan Georgia Show. He was fantastic large fowl champion in his own right. Also, at this show was a champion Light Brahma female who she herself has won many awards in her show carrier. She was reserve champion large fowl of this show.

Then there where some fantastic Rhode Island Red champions from North Carolina there where two birds entered from two different strains. They both had won big at shows they attended each one of them.

Then not only did this male wind big champion large fowl of the show but his sister was reserve of breed. She beat the other great males mentioned above .

Now with all this said you got some great chicks and 25 you are so lucky. I would be happy with ten. I am trying to get a handful of Rose Comb chicks from a good strain to start a new line of Rhode Island Red large fowl called Rose Comb Mohawks. I am having a hard time getting any chicks for this project. I plan to cross a rose comb onto some of my half and half Mohawk red females next year. Or mate a female to their uncle next year. Then I hope to capture the Mohawk type, width of back everything that this line has with a Rose Comb.

Never been done before but no one ever took a Mohawk strain of large fowl and made a bantam out of them before which I did twenty years ago.

All of the good dark Rhode Island Reds that have been posted on this web site are excellent birds from good breeders and any of you who order them will be very happy with the chicks. Many of you are not going to show your Reds or for that matter your other large fowl but we need to get the best quality birds we can to avoid wasting years of hard work to maintain or to improve them. I think just about all of you who have converted over from hatchery to Standard Breed Quality birds have got very good to excellent blood lines. Even a few of you have got some eggs from E bay and have had pretty good luck but some have got the feed store imposters and that can happen.

If you go back to the very first post I started on this thread two plus years ago and just look at the many pictures that people have posted you can see the vast improvement we all have accomplished. On behave of many of us old timers in the fancy of raising exotic Standard Breed (H) poultry I thank you for all your interest and input to this thread.

It has been so educational for so many people with out really interfering with the other posts or breeds or interest on this web site.

I hope I cleared this up. One of my friends said you asked about this. I did not take my VALIUM that day and was a little cranky. Old guys get like this sometimes.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Mohawk line started about 21 years ago. Bad picture taken from a VCR tape I made.

He was Ckl from a six year old hen I had gotten in my start.

Now if I could get a Rose Comb on something like this I would be happy.

 

[winniem13]

[quThis is Mohawk V from 1927 picture done by Schilling and who I named this line that I took over fromMr. E W Reese Jr. 20 years ago. If breed hard and pushing certain traits this old male will show up in your chicks. Use this picture as a guide when selecting your males this year. ote name="Robert Blosl" url="/t/400344/heritage-large-fowl-thread/11820#post_10922782"]




[/quote] Thanks for a great picture! I put it on my phone so I can look at my birds when they get bigger!

 

[NeilsHamburgs]

Just got my partridge rock chicks from dick horstman. Already have gotten my start of silver spangled hamburgs from paul hardy. Now I can stop searching and finally relax.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Just got my partridge rock chicks from dick horstman. Already have gotten my start of silver spangled hamburgs from paul hardy. Now I can stop searching and finally relax.

Now is when the work BEGINS. Heee heeee