Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[thedragonlady]

That's a lot of worming.... have you ever run a control batch of chicks next to the regularly wormed ones to see the difference? I'm curious if it makes a huge difference.

I accidently did that with some chicks in regards to feed. I had a hen raising three chicks she hatched. They free ranged with the hen and had a pan of chick starter that they could acess, but the adult chickens could not. I needed a turkey poult tutor and pulled one inside to the brooder. About three weeks later, I noticed that the chick in with the turkey, which was getting 30% wild bird starter was nearly three times the size of the two still with their mom. I took the other two inside and in another month, the difference is not noticeable.

I would like to see the difference your schedule of worming makes in side by side comparison.

I have seen the difference. I let a friend have some 3 week old chicks. Both those, and the chicks I kept, had been wormed at 2 weeks.I gave my friend my worming schedule. She chose not to follow it, but she did feed the same as I do.When I saw those chicks at 5 months, they were unrecognizable as being from my flock.My pullets were laying. My friend's certainly were not, and did not lay until 8 months old. Those chicks matured out at 2/3 the size of mine, with terrible feather quality.

 

[RedRidge]

Ther

That's a lot of worming.... have you ever run a control batch of chicks next to the regularly wormed ones to see the difference?  I'm curious if it makes a huge difference. 

I accidently did that with some chicks in regards to feed.  I had a hen raising three chicks she hatched.  They free ranged with the hen and had a pan of chick starter that they could acess, but the adult chickens could not.  I needed a turkey poult tutor and pulled one inside to the brooder.  About three weeks later, I noticed that the chick in with the turkey, which was getting 30% wild bird starter was nearly three times the size of the two still with their mom.  I took the other two inside and in another month, the difference is not noticeable.

I would like to see the difference your schedule of worming makes in side by side comparison. 

I have seen the difference. I let a friend have some 3 week old chicks. Both those, and the chicks I kept, had been wormed at 2 weeks.I gave my friend my worming schedule. She chose not to follow it, but she did feed the same as I do.When I saw those chicks at 5 months, they were unrecognizable as being from my flock.My pullets were laying. My friend's certainly were not, and did not lay until 8 months old. Those chicks matured out at 2/3 the size of mine, with terrible feather quality.

There are MANY factors that affect growth rate and health. Making a blanket statement about this sort of comparison has no basis. I have some animals who have never been wormed, I grind and mix feed for several poultry people so I know what others are getting, and with the same feed mine are twice as healthy and 50% larger than those who worm regularly. There are simply way too many other management factors that affect growth.
And using chemicals at all would prevent me from charging what I do for eggs, not to mention the expense of the chemical, the environmental problems and risks, and my time. I am not organic and have no problem treating animals when necessary, its simply that no one has been able to convince me that frequent worming is necessary and we know it is determinental. I will also add that high input management is not sustainable, something that really should be an extremely high priority in this day and time.

 

[thedragonlady]

Ther
There are MANY factors that affect growth rate and health. Making a blanket statement about this sort of comparison has no basis. I have some animals who have never been wormed, I grind and mix feed for several poultry people so I know what others are getting, and with the same feed mine are twice as healthy and 50% larger than those who worm regularly. There are simply way too many other management factors that affect growth.
And using chemicals at all would prevent me from charging what I do for eggs, not to mention the expense of the chemical, the environmental problems and risks, and my time. I am not organic and have no problem treating animals when necessary, its simply that no one has been able to convince me that frequent worming is necessary and we know it is determinental. I will also add that high input management is not sustainable, something that really should be an extremely high priority in this day and time.

Maybe in your local frequent worming is not necessary, but fecal checks certainly prove that it is here, both in dogs, and poultry. My birds have covered sand runs,and range out in the orchard every day. Runs are picked up every day too. In over 50 years raising poultry in this climate, I have found that my method works. I am not interested in producing eggs for sale. I raise show birds. We eat the eggs, as do my neighbors. I do pitch eggs for a week after worming adults. My babies have worm medicine out of their system by the time they lay at 5 months.

 

[cbnovick]

http://www.hpbaa.com/January_2013_Newsletter.html
found a good article for you beginners wanting to show your large fowl this fall.
These two are great exibitors and met them at our Pensacola Fla Show this past Dec.

Also for the people that wanted to see shipping crates to a show found these pictures.

I have seen Cane Creek's birds in some winner's photos in Poultry Press---NICE!

 

[Yellow House Farm]

We only use DE. It works great for us, and we raise hundreds and hundreds of birds a year. I don't know what's more effective than instantly dead. If I have to dust, I do it at night. The next day there's not a bug to be found. I repeat five days later and five days after that. We don't, however, have a big bug problem. General cleanliness should alleviate that most of the time, but bugs are naturally out there and will on occasion show up. If we have what appears to be a parasite problem, usually in the wetter months (March-ish and October-ish), I just put a bunch of DE on their feed. Usually two or three days later, things are back to normal. On the other hand, there's no reason to run birds out of doors when there's a wet spell. If you have a wet season, as opposed to a rainy day or two, keep the birds inside and dry. Don't run birds on crappy mud.

As was pointed out, different locals have different needs. In New England, our heavy hitters are lice and Northern Fowl Mites, which comes in id-late winter. Lice are pretty easy to deal with. For mites, prevent. Clean the coops well before winter, and then if there are a few nice days in mid-winter, empty the coops again and add new shavings. Keep 'em clean and keep 'em dry. If mites come, DE and you're done, unless your place is a sty, and then there's nothing for it.

Edited to add: I remember reading once that there's a kind of mite in the South that's particularly problematic. Indeed, I believe the advise was to burn the coop down and start over. I can speak nothing to southern mites...at least for now...I'm sure climate change will change that too.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: That's right and from my experience well worth it,! After multiple fiascos with shipped eggs and chicks, who wouldn't want to pay that amount for some fine started birds from a quality breeder?
More than the loss of the eggs themselves, is the timing in the season. But starting with started birds not only gets the purchasers birds which have been approved for quality by the breeder....it redeems the time in early season lost by incubator failure of shipped eggs and growing out chicks which weren't as advertised ...plus gets one back on track for next breeding season. Money can be replaced, but time lost trying to hatch damaged shipped eggs is another thing entirely. I paid close to 150. to get mine shipped here from Montana. Box: 50.; shipping : circa 100.
Hurrah for shipped started birds!
Karen

 

[finnfur]

Edited to add: I remember reading once that there's a kind of mite in the South that's particularly problematic. Indeed, I believe the advise was to burn the coop down and start over. I can speak nothing to southern mites...at least for now...I'm sure climate change will change that too.

Yes they are called Rebel Mites Ya'll

 

[aveca]

We only use DE. It works great for us, and we raise hundreds and hundreds of birds a year. I don't know what's more effective than instantly dead. If I have to dust, I do it at night. The next day there's not a bug to be found. I repeat five days later and five days after that. We don't, however, have a big bug problem. General cleanliness should alleviate that most of the time, but bugs are naturally out there and will on occasion show up. If we have what appears to be a parasite problem, usually in the wetter months (March-ish and October-ish), I just put a bunch of DE on their feed. Usually two or three days later, things are back to normal. On the other hand, there's no reason to run birds out of doors when there's a wet spell. If you have a wet season, as opposed to a rainy day or two, keep the birds inside and dry. Don't run birds on crappy mud.

As was pointed out, different locals have different needs. In New England, our heavy hitters are lice and Northern Fowl Mites, which comes in id-late winter. Lice are pretty easy to deal with. For mites, prevent. Clean the coops well before winter, and then if there are a few nice days in mid-winter, empty the coops again and add new shavings. Keep 'em clean and keep 'em dry. If mites come, DE and you're done, unless your place is a sty, and then there's nothing for it.

Edited to add: I remember reading once that there's a kind of mite in the South that's particularly problematic. Indeed, I believe the advise was to burn the coop down and start over. I can speak nothing to southern mites...at least for now...I'm sure climate change will change that too.

Interesting..What is DE?
I do total strip the barn cleaning not the pick cleaning every 2 weeks and spray the woodwork right to the cracks once a month. ,I got one of those 10.00 pump sprayers at farm and tractor and it is still working great at 5 years old.I make sure to remove whats left of the spray and wash it every year and store it inside where the plastic wont crack or wear out in the winter... the mites will hide inbetween boards ..and havnt had a problem in a long time..many years ago I had one pen that was a perpetual problem, every year it was bugg warfare in that pen..there was a good vidio on youtube about a ground treatment that keeps the yards clean ,and it didnt kill every living thing was safe for plants , animals and frogs ect..just stopped lice & mites somehow..I wish I could remember what the product was..it was in brown bag.. when the wild birds come in to rob the feeders, the bugs come with them..

Those southern mites sound like a monster! Like killer bees and such, they will probably find thier way up here in north east..

 

[Extra Java]

Diatomaceous Earth
"Fossilized remains of microscopic shells created by one celled plants called diatoms."
http://diatomaceousearth.net/

We used to purchase 200#'s a month but it is very dehydrating, cracked my and my animals skin and I practically got a case of Farmer's Lung.

We switched to sulfur and skin is soft, hair and feathers are glowing and I feel it's more effective and needs less application than the amount of DE we were going through.

DE is great for adding to grain/feed sacks to keep the "bugs" etc. out. It's general use is an "anti-caking agent" found in our spices and other foods etc.

 

[cbnovick]

Yes they are called Rebel Mites Ya'll

Diatomaceous Earth
"Fossilized remains of microscopic shells created by one celled plants called diatoms."
http://diatomaceousearth.net/

We used to purchase 200#'s a month but it is very dehydrating, cracked my and my animals skin and I practically got a case of Farmer's Lung.

We switched to sulfur and skin is soft, hair and feathers are glowing and I feel it's more effective and needs less application than the amount of DE we were going through.

DE is great for adding to grain/feed sacks to keep the "bugs" etc. out. It's general use is an "anti-caking agent" found in our spices and other foods etc.

How and where do you purchase your sulfur?? I have used Garden & Poultry dust with success but I would not mind trying something less noxious.