Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[mississippifarmboy]

For beginners in the Fancy!

Beginners Guide to Raising and Showing Chickens DVD
An essential tool for novice poultry fanciers.
Contains information on everything from hatching to exhibiting and beyond. Includes section on judging at poultry shows by licensed APA judges.
Price $ 20.00

http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/APA_ShoppingMall3.htm
Thanks for the link Jim, I'd missed that one and I'm most defiantly a novice.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

You are welcome.

To Bob - I just searched Yahoo for "Heritage large fowl chickens". First search that appeared was https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/400344/heritage-large-fowl-thread

You are doing a great job Bob.

Quote:

Quote: Thanks for the link Jim, I'd missed that one and I'm most defiantly a novice.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Nice to see the messages. My friend from North Mississippi I am very impressed with your progress. You dont have to go to shows to prove any thing. You can maintain what you have and learn how to improve slowly. I just got off the phone with my parnter from Arkansas who has my Red Bantams. We talk about a hour ever week for the past four years. In my method of breeding it is important to have a partner so in case you get wiped out and loose a lot of birds to wild dogs or theifs or something you can go back to a person who has maintained your strain and its nice to get a fresh bird every five to eight years from each other.

His weather is 107 today. Thats so hard on these chickens.

In regards to the Speckled Sussex birds there are some good ones or at least on strain that you need to get your hands on. His culls will be better than anything you could breed from a cross from hatchery stock. Someone on here knows his name I for got right now. Be patient and try to get a pair or trio from him or one of his customers who has his line. Then you wont waist a lot of time trying to breed them up or keep them at the level that they are. Keep what you have to practice with and learn with but always try to find some better but breed them pure dont cross them.

Like the black orpington strain you need to keep it pure and not distroy all the good work that you see in thier birds.

Go back and look at Ralphs white leghorn horn male in a picture he has. If you got a breeding trio from Ralph you would make a big mistake and cross them on another strain as those are about as good as they come. You take the fruits of the master breeder and try to just hang on and keep them. Good messages. bob

 

[Matt1616]

Mr. Speckled Sussex is Gary Overton. Has had some of the best in the country for years.

 

[Arielle]

Mr. Speckled Sussex is Gary Overton. Has had some of the best in the country for years.

Thank you--how do I find him?

 

[Lacy Blues]

In regards to the Speckled Sussex birds there are some good ones or at least on strain that you need to get your hands on. His culls will be better than anything you could breed from a cross from hatchery stock. Someone on here knows his name I for got right now.

Possibly Robert Mongold? I'm not sure if that is who Bob had in mind, perhaps the other guy, but I've seen pictures of Robert Mongold's birds on Feathersite. I believe he has started a Sussex club?

 

[3riverschick]

Possibly Robert Mongold? I'm not sure if that is who Bob had in mind, perhaps the other guy, but I've seen pictures of Robert Mongold's birds on Feathersite. I believe he has started a Sussex club?

Hi,
The new club now is the American Sussex Association. Started by at Cherokee Exotics.
The best names in LF and bantam SQ Speckled Sussex are , as you say, Judge Overton, Plus Rev. Ashbrook in Bantam SS;
and Tony Albrittion LF SS (ID) Also Walt Reichert (KY) has been tearing up the ring in his area with his LG SS hen.
Skytop Bantam in PA did a wonderful job of melding Overton and Mongold Bantam SS and are APA Master Breeders in Bantam SS. I don't know if they have them any more but several folk have their strain. Some are melding it back with Overton ( essentially a loose line-breeding) . Cassie Streitmeyer(Sp?) at Painted Feathers Farm has both Overton and Skytop strains. They are both top SQ Bantam SS but differing body types.
Personally, I think Albrittion's LF are a stain unto themselves and shouldn't be crossed to other LF SS lines, but that's just my opinion. Tony did an outcross a couple of years back and has brought the flock back from it. So much diversity there and no reason to outcross again.
Now there are a couple of guys down south. One has picked up a coveted line when the guy sold out. The other has pure Skytop. Oh, names escape me. I'll have to look them up. Great breeder's directory listed over at the American Sussex Association website. Lists only the colors and varieties, but a quick call will reveal which strains the members have. Nothing like it here on BYC that I know of. No SQ LF or bantam Silver Sussex strains in the US, that I know of. Only SQ strains of Sussex I know of in the US are Speckled Sussex and LS. There are Red Sussex and Greenfire brought in Brown Sussex to release next year. There are some Buff Sussex somewhere I saw on the Net. These will all take time. If one wants to shows and win now with Sussex fowl, then the SS and LS are the varieties to use. Esp. in SS (because they are a tri-colored variety) , get the vintage strains and never cross them outside of the related gene pools. In Bantams, that is Ashbrook; Mongold ;Skytop; and Overton. In LF I think.. the lines are more separate and much caution should be used and counsel divined before crossing them. They're Albrittion, Overton, and Reichert. Don't quote me, but I think Mongold only had bantams.
There's also another book out there on Sussex that's really worthwhile getting. One of the 3 great Secretaries of the english "Sussex Poultry Club" was Leo Outram ( The other two were Sharpe and Clem Watson). Anyway, Outram wrote a wonderful book on Sussex Fowl ( died in 1951). I have the 1926, a great little book. Then there is a 1936 edition. Never found it for sale but... Country Books in NZ reprinted it. Wow, what a gold mine! Oversized with stiff cardboard and colors in on high quality paper. Truly respectful of the volume. Includes full color prints reprints of the Feathered World series on Sussex Fowl. And the text of the 1936 edition. Plus... wait for it... the series of letters by Clem Watson on the Sussex. These letters are ultra rare. Checking OCLC reveals they are only in 2 libraries worldwide and they aren't loaning them out.
Per the Peter Smith Sussex book from Australia? I found it interesting but unhelpful as their breeding parameters and color genes are different from ours. For instance, they value size so highly in the Light Sussex to the point it compromises the breed type. I think there is a copy for sale on eBay
Batty's book on the Dorking and Sussex Fowl is interesting. Kinda cute, he says on the opening page, he mean to write about the Dorking but quickly decided n the Sussex instead. Excellent info and illustrations. Available for cheap on eBay.
Best,
Karen
PR Director, Amer. Sussex Assoc.

 

[3riverschick]

Bob and others have cautioned folks on crossing strains. When you locate a great strain, like the Mohawk in RIR and then outcross to a non-related strain, it may take years to return to anything of quality. That is why we have worked so hard to keep our Orpington lines pure.
-----------------
Go back and look at Ralphs white leghorn horn male in a picture he has. If you got a breeding trio from Ralph you would make a big mistake and cross them on another strain as those are about as good as they come. You take the fruits of the master breeder and try to just hang on and keep them. Good messages. bob
========================
Sometimes I just want to tear my hair out. What is so hard to understand about this? Sigh. Have been on other breed lists and explain this to folks with color projects and those who keep crossing strains for "Biodiversity". They just don't get it. Have been seduced by the Dark Side i.e. the landrace biodiversity advocates. Honestly, those land-race folk and classic animal breeding theory are oil and water. They will never mix. The fundamental breeding parameters are so philosophically different they can never be used on the same breeding project. I know folk want to breed healthy chickens but "biodiversity" isn't the way to do it. Wise selection is the way to do it. They're way two different things. Look at what the biodiversity crowd breeds. Really breed behind all their fancy talk. They breed land-races. What's that? It's species and breeds of animal which are known only for the general characteristics which define their breed or species. No specific points of anatomy or color. Get that? They don't care about breed type. At all. they only care about function and vigor. Two quite enticing subjects. Ones classic animal breeders hold dear and want to perpetuate in their breeding programs. But the end result in both camps is very different. We do it by breeding to specific points of the breed and wise selection. They do it by random mating for function without regard to specific form. Get it? In their case, form only relates to how well the animal needs to function. In our case we believe the animal can function better if the form is improved. It's a seductive difference but completely incompatible with classic animal breeding theory. Do not listen to them. They are a red herring. There is no reason to use repeated out crossings and random matings in classic animal breeding theory because we can use wise selection instead to accomplish our goals. Stop crossing strains to found flocks. The genetics professor Jerold Bell summed it up succinctly when he wrote, "
"It is the varied opinion of breeders as to what constitutes the ideal representative of the breed, and their selection of breeding stock that maintains breed diversity."
Jerold S. Bell, DVM
Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, N. Grafton, MA

For myself, :
"Old fashions please me best; I am not so nice,

To change true rules for odd inventions."
—Taming Of The Shrew.
Best Regards,
Karen

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I have to be a supporter of keeping lines pure. I'm sure that shocks all of you to extremes. *sarcasm*

I began having severe issues with malformed chicks thanks to the inbreeding I was required to do with my lines. Thanks to another breeder up here who purchased all of Forrest's line, I was able to acquire a nice male that will help bring livability of my chicks back. I refused to bring in any other line to "mess up" the genetics, even though it resulted in several chicks being malformed and culled upon hatching. Why did I refuse? Because I knew that adding a different line, that was probably bred for different traits could ruin my line for decades to come. I searched for quite some time before I could locate another breeder with the same lineage.

Instead of dreading what next year will bring, I am excited to see improvement in my lines with the knowledge that the traits I desire will be maintained because I did the research and homework.

I would sincerely hope that if someone were to purchase from any major known breeder, that they keep in contact with that breeder. Many are more than happy to assist with knowledge and advice to help preserve their lines and the breed as a whole. These older breeders are an EXCELLENT resource and should be utilized!

Thank you Bob for making yourself so readily available with information, advice and ideals to help those of us who are new and some who are not so new to the fancy!

 

[Robert Blosl]

The best names in LF and bantam SQ Speckled Sussex are , as you say, Judge Overton

Thats him. I bet his phone number is in the APA year book or in the Poultry Press under judges.

How many of you get the POULTRY PRESS paper????? if you dont you should this will help you locate all the good breeders and judges in the USA. If you see a judge that lives in your area he or she will know who has the chickens you want as they handle them within a 400 mile radius of their home for sure.

What you need to do is find him call him and then ask him is there any one in your neighborhood that has his stock with in a three to five hour drive. Next you could meet him at a large chicken show like Lucasville, or Columbus Ohio or have some Friend pick them up for you. A breeding trio is all you need to get started. With the two females you have two family's. Mate the best two daughters back to the male and the one or two best ckls to the hens the next year. Get him as your mentor. Ask him how to breed these things for type and color. Join the new club and learn from them.

Very simple if you think about it. I thought about you and your speckled Sussex today when I was sweating my butt off and cl earning out a chicken pen. I wondered how many people get chickens like this from a hatchery and think they got something. Just because they say they are what they are after you look at them when they are seven months old com paired to some of Overtons you will see the difference.

I just got off the phone with a friend who is in a RV park in Salem Oregon and I told him about the big Oregon State Fair I use to go to and this place use to have all the great large fowl of every breed you could dream of. People came from Oregon, Washington and California to show there. They had great Speckled Sussex there back in the sixty's. That is where I com paired my hatchery light Brahmas to the real ones that Bill Shear had from Portland. It was like taking my dog shorty to a dog show and entering him in a class of German Shepard's and then seeing the real Germany Shepard's in the show. You want to get in your car and go home. Once you see the real deal or the true to Standard Breed you will not want to go back to the want a be chickens.

I wish you well and the person who posted above should be able to help you locate some of this blood lines. They are a great dual purpose chicken and he has got his birds on champion row many times over the years and for a very rare heritage chicken that is very good. Hope you can get some or find pictures of them to show us.