Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

Hi,
I don't know a lot and what I do know has been hard learnt. But I do know this.
1. start with one breed. be an expert at it. This can take a lifetime.
2. Start with related birds from a carefully line-bred veteran line/strain.
Listen to and heed that breeders' advice. A mentor is a great thing.
3. Study and understand several different breeding programs so
one will have versatility in ones' breeding program , if need be.
4. Choose a breeding plan(s) which is best for your aims and your stock.
5. Breed for vitality and (utility { which is the sum of capability and capacity}) first,
SOP second and exterior ornamentation third.
6.Very often breeding for utiltiy and SOP are the same thing .
7. Study like your flock depends on it, because it does.
Calculated correctly, "balance in the abstract" is a beautiful thing manifested in the flesh.
8. That took me 18 years to learn, i'm not even a pimple on the butt of knowledge.
.. and the road goes ever, ever on.....
Best,
Karen

 

[Robert Blosl]

Bob, you eat your silkies? I have heard folks do but you are the first to say so and not squeal at the idea of muffy going in the oven. There are Plymouth White Rocks here but I got told they don't lay well, them or Dark Cornish.

I was told to breed Dorkings here for their quality of meat and for improving Houdans. That is my intention, but I don't know enough about breeding to argue one way or another. I plan to learn and make mistakes and hopefully keep learning. I was also recommended Dark Cornish and there is one breeder I know of here but I got told they also grow much slower than the Dorkings. I could use some experienced opinions here.

Along the lines of learning... how do you feel a deep keel? Is this something that could be shown to me at a show?

No I could not eat Mr. Silkie. He is my pet. I got him last fall at a show to mate to my white rock and buff Brahma cull hens to make sitting hens. Think of the mess I would make but maybe some crazy chicken person would want to put this mess in the standard some day. I put him on the ground several times and each time he still out there coming to me and saying I am hungry whats UP. So one day I put him in a safe pen from the owls and the hawks and said ok next year we will make some babies and keep the females for hatching duck eggs that is Gray Calls. I like sitting hens over the incubator. Get better hatches and better young call ducks. I have never ate a silkie but I hear they are good eating. Heck I heard Gray Calls are good eating but I am not going to eat a $50 duck. In regard to white rocks in Maine not laying very well I think you are correct. My strain is breed to lay and they still do just like my reds use to lay. I breed them that way by using and pushing feather quality or the fast feathering gene.

In feeling for the keel I dont feel for the keel I look for it on the side profile. I was looking at one of my young four month old white rock ckls and his keel sticks out like his great great great grandpa use to do. All my females have extended keels. Just put breeding pressure on that area and in time the keel will get longer. Only use males and females in the breeding pen with this trait. You can not put flesh or meat on the keel of a rock unless you got a keel bone to put it on. Many white rock males you see have flat chests. These are culls in my book. At least a two to three point cut when judged. Some judges dont worry about it and push this bird up on champion row. Shame on them. I wont use a red or a rock unless they have extended keels to com form to the standard. Heck even my rock bantams have gravy bowl breasts on them if not OFF THEIR HEAD GOES.

If you want some good white rocks that came out of California about fifty years ago. I can fix you up with five to ten started chicks next spring.

Thats about it. Keep a open mind and try to learn something new every day. Many of you are going to be one of the chosen few. Just dont give up.

 

[Arielle]

THanks for the info BOb, that's the kind of stuff I need to learn.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Just for the sake of discussion... breeding for size?

In my Andalusian flock, I don't have a problem with size. I have good sized birds, but I was thinking about and wondering about breeding for size BEFORE I have a problem with it. I don't want to use Minorcas, even though that is fine for someone else. The Minorca has qualities that I am not looking for in my Andalusians. So, in order to cut the problem off before it begins, can this be talked about a little bit? Do I just breed large to large? Or is there more to it?

I do have one male who looks to have some Minorca in his back ground. I picked him up in Stockton this past January. He is part Roebuck and part Superior Farms. I know, a few years back, John Hayes as well as NYREDS sent most of their birds to Superior before they sold out. Then I met the young man in Stockton who had picked up all of the Andalusians that Superior sold. So, these birds are somewhat related to some of the birds which I have. Somewhere along the line though, I'm suspicious of a second breed being used... not to start up an old argument. I appreciate the input from before but I'm gonna try to head off the size issue at the pass!

Any and all help/advice is appreciated.

 

[NYREDS]

As far as I know all of Superiors Andalusians came from John & I. Some may have come from Butch Gunderson but he & Tom Roebuck both got birds from John so they're all related to some degree. Whoever it was in stockton didn't get all of Superiors Andalusians as I know Roland Romig delivered some to Bath NY when he was disposing of the flocks.
Size has to come from somewhere so if you're unwilling to use another breed to improve size then breeding large to large would seem to be the only remaining alternative. That will work as long as the strain is still producing birds at or above standard weight. If everything is coming out light you've got a problem.

 

[ashandvine]

I want a round chested bird, then, right? It should look like a marine-- sticking its chest out all the time? I have a few Ameraucanas here and their chests are flat. When I pick them up they are scrawny so I think I understand. Reminds me of ducks or geese with rounds chests. Sounds applicable to all meat breeds and makes good sense.

Mr Bob, you are not the first man to get on well with his Silkie Roo. Yours sounds just like the one I met recently kept by this old farmer here. It runs up to him like a dog and follows him around.

I will consider the White Rock offer, Mr Bob. Very generous of you. You might be wasting them on me, though, as I am pretty new to breeding. I am looking hard for a good dual purpose bird that can be raised to about 4-5 months to cull for the freezer, while the rest are raised on for breeders/eggs the next year or two. I don't know anything about showing. While it sounds interesting I am not even close to ready. I was going to try raising a few Dorkings and Coronation Sussex since having fournd a breeder here. This same breeder offered me Dark Cornish, which I heard was delicious, but I can't start with too many things at once or I'll learn nothing and fear I will just feel over run. I expect to be in here learning in the mean time. I suppose its been asked already, but, what are the preferences of meat bird in here?

 

[fowlman01]

Just for the sake of discussion... breeding for size?

In my Andalusian flock, I don't have a problem with size. I have good sized birds, but I was thinking about and wondering about breeding for size BEFORE I have a problem with it. I don't want to use Minorcas, even though that is fine for someone else. The Minorca has qualities that I am not looking for in my Andalusians. So, in order to cut the problem off before it begins, can this be talked about a little bit? Do I just breed large to large? Or is there more to it?

I do have one male who looks to have some Minorca in his back ground. I picked him up in Stockton this past January. He is part Roebuck and part Superior Farms. I know, a few years back, John Hayes as well as NYREDS sent most of their birds to Superior before they sold out. Then I met the young man in Stockton who had picked up all of the Andalusians that Superior sold. So, these birds are somewhat related to some of the birds which I have. Somewhere along the line though, I'm suspicious of a second breed being used... not to start up an old argument. I appreciate the input from before but I'm gonna try to head off the size issue at the pass!

Any and all help/advice is appreciated.

Who was the young man at Stockton. Peter?

Walt

 

[Lacy Blues]

Who was the young man at Stockton. Peter?

Walt

No, not Peter. It was a young man from Arizona who rode in with Lacy Greer. I can't remember his name right now. I have the exhibitor list from Stockton so I should dig that out and then I'd be able to find his name. According to him he got what was left from Superior. Which doesn't mean anything other than maybe he got what was left after Romig took some. Peter was able to attend the Crossroads show last year and brought home a really nice rooster. Big too. I wanted to go to Crossroads but it just wasn't meant to be for me. We moved that summer before and it just wasn't possible. I went to the first one though and had a lot of fun even though I didn't bring any birds. There weren't any Andalusians for sale that year, unless one was to buy them out of the show cages!

 

[fowlman01]

No, not Peter. It was a young man from Arizona who rode in with Lacy Greer. I can't remember his name right now. I have the exhibitor list from Stockton so I should dig that out and then I'd be able to find his name. According to him he got what was left from Superior. Which doesn't mean anything other than maybe he got what was left after Romig took some. Peter was able to attend the Crossroads show last year and brought home a really nice rooster. Big too. I wanted to go to Crossroads but it just wasn't meant to be for me. We moved that summer before and it just wasn't possible. I went to the first one though and had a lot of fun even though I didn't bring any birds. There weren't any Andalusians for sale that year, unless one was to buy them out of the show cages!

It appears that the Andulusians are making a comeback. Bridget Riddle also has them. In the 70--80's a lot of good ones came here from NY.

Walt

 

[Lacy Blues]

Yes, Bridgett got her start from me. Then Peter picked up a pair or trio on the breeder raffle. I don't know where these birds came from but I wasn't overly impressed by them. But then Peter came back the next year with 3 cockerels that he showed at Stockton which were all offspring of the ones he got from the raffle. He had one of each variety and I really really liked them, so he got some well-paired breeders. Then last year he provided me with some birds from that breeding. The Andalusian gene pool is pretty small so they're all related to some extent. I got my start from Sandhill Preservation as I was told that they probably had the best of the rare breeds. That first year, I lost the best female that I received from them because, I believe, she was eggbound. It was at about 5 months of age and I had no idea that such a thing could happen. Of course it had to be the best one! So, I just worked with what I had left and over several years I made pretty good progress. Then I got a cockerel from Tom Roebuck and the next year, after much pleading and correspondence and phone calls I was able to get a bunch of hatching eggs from John Hayes. A couple years after that I got birds from Peter. Now I have these from the guy from Arizona which I picked up in January. I am maintaining my original line as well and trying to make improvements in that. My goal is to maintain 3 lines. This past year I was able to hatch more than previously and I have a lot of chicks to go through.

I don't know where Sandhill got their birds so I don't really know how closely related they are to the other Andalusians out there.