Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[fowlman01]

First Walt do you remember what strain HV Cook showed at that show. The fellow who he got his White Leghorns was one of the nicest men I ever met as a kid. Funny thing I have his strain today and I never thought I would ever have a White Leghorn in my live. I got mine indirectly from the master breeder from Idaho.

In regards to meat birds that dont make noise I think you need to get hatchery chickens. Dont fool with these Heritage Chickens, they are so full of vigor they will wake you up at 4 am every moaning. There is nothing like light Brahmas or cherry eggs in my view they dont crow that much.

You have to decide when you take on a Heritage large fowl what you want. So many are hung up on breeds because they look so pretty in the pictures in the catalogs.

I got hung up on that once and then after I got the chickens found out they where fakes.

The best large fowl Heritage Chicken for meat, eggs and noise levels is the White Plymouth Rocks. If they make your mom mad because they are high in the decibel range you can de voice them.

I have mine way back in the woods and I cant hear them. My silkie rooster is near my house and he is very low in noise when he crows and that dark meat is just so good to eat.

Well my brown truck never showed up from the shipment from Canada. So guess I will have to go down to the woods and check the copper kettle and the tubing with the corn mesh in the tub.

That will fix my wagon and make me content. Got to work tomorrow at 6 am so can not drink to much of the stuff.

You all have a happy weekend and will see you next time. Matt I am going to Franks house Sunday at 11 am to give him some White Rock hens. Hope to bring James some of the other two hens and the male. Will come over with my ax and help you cull your chickens. bob

Yes, I do. Leonard Smith.

Walt

 

[Arielle]

I have to agree with you Bob, fakes is a good description of the misleading descriptions of many of the hatchery birds. My buff orpingtons behave like a BO and generally look like a buff, but they are too small. Certainly not the small pony I saw at the Boston show. Love them anyways. Decent layers, but poor on the meat. Very friendly. That' s my experience in one short year on buffs.

 

[15littlem]

I have to agree with you Bob, fakes is a good description of the misleading descriptions of many of the hatchery birds. My buff orpingtons behave like a BO and generally look like a buff, but they are too small. Certainly not the small pony I saw at the Boston show. Love them anyways. Decent layers, but poor on the meat. Very friendly. That' s my experience in one short year on buffs.

Do you know any standard breeding Orpington breeders in TN? I realize from their SOP description that they're supposed to be much bigger than the hatchery varieties, and I don't know any standard breeders in TN.

 

[call ducks]

So, how many years have you been successfully raising Dorkings, to be such an expert???

Kim

WOW no need to get touchy eh? I just stated my tow cents! Never said any one had to take it to heart!

I have not raised Dorkings and never well. I have been raising rare ( and by rare i mean one line in the world with ohh say 150 in North america the rest suluded to Hungry). A mentor and a great friend is where i got my opion on how to breed up. As well as my own experince. Once you start working with a rare breed that is only in two countries let me know and tell me how formal breeding works.. I honestly would like to know!


You have to remember that when farmers first started breeding these birds (at least the british) they were just chickens. Chickens from village x,y, and z were thrown to gather. And every year there would be peddlers who would buy sell and trade chickens. Adding to there genetics. Take for example the Sussex. It was not a breed untill the yearly 1900s but it existed in some way shape or form there for at least 5 decads prior. These farmers in sussex county england would not hatch 5,15,45 chicks a year but some would hatch hundreds! These were the birds that the SOP was based off of. They were sucessfuly in having a dual purpose breed because they hatched a large number of and was able to see a full rainbow of genetics. Not just blue, or red. Heterosis is a wonderfully thing... When used correctly.

Even Don Shaver, breeder of many of the commercial crosses said something along the lines of "If they do not adjest the grandparent flocks the parent flocks well collapse"; (qoute from a friend). .. Look if don is saying that Heterosis is a good thing then staring these flocks from one or two lines is not going to cut it! Heterosis (or hy-bred vigor) does not meaning crossing two different breeds. Crossing two different lines.. Heck two different breeding groups from the same parents can produce Heterosis on verying levels. The first cross is the most important cross.

Weather you disagree or agree with me. There is way more to a chicken then you can see. And way more to any chickens genetics that you can't see by hatching a handfull of chickens.... Maybe it's the fact i want production above looks, maybe it's my keen intrest of biology coming out...

Any ways i well go crawl back into my hole now

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I'm too new to chickens, I just know the hatchery birds are NOT the real deal. THere is a national organization for the orpingtons, perhaps you can find a TN breeder there. Otherwise can you hatch eggs? Sometimes you have to start that way to get really good lines.

Sorry I'm not much help. I'm still learning.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi call ducks,
Yes, it is difficult to explain breeding by population genetics all in one post. There is much between your sentences left unsaid.
I agree it's a fascinating approach to animal breeding and yes, there is enormous detail still unexplained behind the outline you
have given here. The whens and how's of tagging, measuring, culling,,,, so many details. I am happy for you, you are learning
this way of breeding. Too few people practice it in the modern era. Do you have any special books to reccomend on the subject?
I am always up for some good reading. My biggest problem with population genetics is I get lost in all the math, sigh.
Best Regards,
karen

 

[fowlman01]

WOW no need to get touchy eh? I just stated my tow cents! Never said any one had to take it to heart!
I have not raised Dorkings and never well. I have been raising rare ( and by rare i mean one line in the world with ohh say 150 in North america the rest suluded to Hungry). A mentor and a great friend is where i got my opion on how to breed up. As well as my own experince. Once you start working with a rare breed that is only in two countries let me know and tell me how formal breeding works.. I honestly would like to know!

You have to remember that when farmers first started breeding these birds (at least the british) they were just chickens. Chickens from village x,y, and z were thrown to gather. And every year there would be peddlers who would buy sell and trade chickens. Adding to there genetics. Take for example the Sussex. It was not a breed untill the yearly 1900s but it existed in some way shape or form there for at least 5 decads prior. These farmers in sussex county england would not hatch 5,15,45 chicks a year but some would hatch hundreds! These were the birds that the SOP was based off of. They were sucessfuly in having a dual purpose breed because they hatched a large number of and was able to see a full rainbow of genetics. Not just blue, or red. Heterosis is a wonderfully thing... When used correctly.
Even Don Shaver, breeder of many of the commercial crosses said something along the lines of "If they do not adjest the grandparent flocks the parent flocks well collapse"; (qoute from a friend). .. Look if don is saying that Heterosis is a good thing then staring these flocks from one or two lines is not going to cut it! Heterosis (or hy-bred vigor) does not meaning crossing two different breeds. Crossing two different lines.. Heck two different breeding groups from the same parents can produce Heterosis on verying levels. The first cross is the most important cross.
Weather you disagree or agree with me. There is way more to a chicken then you can see. And way more to any chickens genetics that you can't see by hatching a handfull of chickens.... Maybe it's the fact i want production above looks, maybe it's my keen intrest of biology coming out...
Any ways i well go crawl back into my hole now

Out of curiosity...what is the rare breed and how long have you been improving them? Pictures would be great.

Walt

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Very interesting read, though I have't gotten through all 6 gazillion pages yet!

I'm not sure if the following breeds meet the definition of "heritage", but does anyone know of any masters of these breeds/people with quality stock?
-naked neck
-cubalaya
-cuckoo marans

Interested to hear from anyone who has any leads on quality birds from any of these breeds.

Been so helpful reading about things like the Hogan method of breeding, and so encouraging to see such stunning examples of breeds that have served us well and sustainably.

 

[fowlman01]

Very interesting read, though I have't gotten through all 6 gazillion pages yet!
I'm not sure if the following breeds meet the definition of "heritage", but does anyone know of any masters of these breeds/people with quality stock?
-naked neck
-cubalaya
-cuckoo marans
Interested to hear from anyone who has any leads on quality birds from any of these breeds.
Been so helpful reading about things like the Hogan method of breeding, and so encouraging to see such stunning examples of breeds that have served us well and sustainably.

Cubalaya's: Duane Urch in MInn and Sam Brush in TX. Sam is the APA prez, so his contact info is easy to find.

Walt

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Thanks Fowlman. Duane Urch has come up several times (I knew he had NNs, but great to learn he has cubalayas too), but Sam Brush is a new name for me. Will look him up.