Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

Ditto. I do not understand people wanting to purchase my best pullets when they are not going to be breeding them--

A thing of beauty is a joy forever. Many people want high quality, even in their everyday flock. isn't that why we are in this preservationist thing in the first place? To bring the historic beauty and function of these heritage breeds back to the everyday family flock? Why should we be so surprised when folk recognize and want these traits in the breeds we have worked so hard to preserve?

yet, I have folks who only keep hens, won't be breeding and the first thing they'll say, is, "I don't want your culls." Then I say, "you won't be purchasing any pullets from me then." I am not going to sell a good breeder pullet to someone who is not a breeder. The stock is just too rare to waste.

Yes, I can see your point. However, these folk who only want laying hens? Those hens will be there for several years. If you ever need a back-cross or a restart, or something, the flock will be there to help out. Plus you can keep resupplying these folk with new layers over the years, creating a parallel flock of layers to your own. Always a good safety net. Plus, it a good thing to see how as many as possible grow up from your strain. I consider those who "just want layers" to be a valuable reservoir of genetics for preservation projects. Perhaps some day situations will change and they will be able to have a breeding project. That's a good thing too. People who "just want laying hens" are an important part of any preservation project and are important genetic partners.
Best,
Karen

 

[CluckyCharms]

Yes, I can see your point. However, these folk who only want laying hens? Those hens will be there for several years. If you ever need a back-cross or a restart, or something, the flock will be there to help out. Plus you can keep resupplying them with new layers over the years, creating a parallel flock of layers to your own. Always a good safety net. Plus, it a good thing to see how as many as possible grow up from your strain. I consider those who "just want layers" to be a valuable reservoir of genetics for preservation projects. Perhaps some day situations will change and they will be able to have a breeding project. That's a good thing too. People who "just want laying hens" are an important part of any preservation project and are important genetic partners.
Best,
Karen

I agree with this. Things happen even in the best of "chicken environments" and heaven forbid if someone had to eradicate their flock or something else (predator) eradicated it for them - I would think serious breeders would be grateful to know they had some really nice stock out there laying eggs in peace and good health. I didn't think about it the way you presented it - but it makes perfect sense (to me anyway).

 

[fowlman01]

Show chickens don't always produce like birds. Two Best of Show heritage birds bred together does not guarantee awesome babies.......even if they are from the same breeder and same strain/line. Breeding superb specimens of poultry is an art and requires an educated eye. "Culls" can mean many things to many people. I never sell birds that have any kind of major problem. What I don't tolerate in my flock because of whatever reason, does not make that bird a cull in a show or anywhere else. I can only keep so many birds, so the birds that have some minor fault l tend to let go. Many times these birds come back and beat me in a show. Breeders keep the birds they need for showing or breeding, but a good breeder has birds to sell that can do very well in the shows or a breeding pen. Check references, show wins, etc.....but most importantly know the breed you want to buy and check out the seller.

There are lots of people who call themselves "breeders", but are really only propagators, with no idea how to put birds together that will improve the breed..

Walt

 

[FeyRaine]

Hi, I'm new on BYC so I hope I am posting this in the correct thread, pls let me know if not
(my intro is posted yesterday so will not bore you w/ repeating stuff here)

I'm planning to upgrade for 2013, and intend to start working w/ Buckeyes in a very old fashioned homestead type context so I believe they will be a good breed choice for me.

I was thinking to get them from a major hatchery that is offering them (several yrs back I couldn't find a source so I was excited to find them for sale like this now).
BUT, since reading a lot here on BYC I'm concerned if I will get birds worthy of preservation aspect. Esp. concerned re: the point one of you made about the hatchery birds
being divergent in conditions & therefore rapidly loosing the very traits for which I have picked this breed over say a Production Red or Sexlink which I would not hesitate to buy from a major hatchery IF that was the type of bird I wanted.

I certainly don't want to start any ugliness, but are there thoughts specific to Buckeye about that issue, I mean the hatcheries haven't had them for long so are we thinking I would get what I seek, or would I be getting some "red birds" that may or may not have the qualities I'm after?

I'm in TN N of Chattanooga in mts - anybody around here actually have Buckeyes and want to give me your 2cents on how they are doing in this part of the world?

Finally, we bought parts for diy bator to build this wk, but I wonder, if I hatch eggs will I not also loose some of this breed's specialness, b/c there will not be a mama Buckeye to pass on foraging skill etc? Anybody else worry about that issue or is that too much to worry about when there are so few birds and they just need to be spread around more to save the breed?

Thanks for any replys or thoughts
FeyRaine

 

[CluckyCharms]

Show chickens don't always produce like birds. Two Best of Show heritage birds bred together does not guarantee awesome babies.......even if they are from the same breeder and same strain/line. Breeding superb specimens of poultry is an art and requires an educated eye. "Culls" can mean many things to many people. I never sell birds that have any kind of major problem. What I don't tolerate in my flock because of whatever reason, does not make that bird a cull in a show or anywhere else. I can only keep so many birds, so the birds that have some minor fault l tend to let go. Many times these birds come back and beat me in a show. Breeders keep the birds they need for showing or breeding, but a good breeder has birds to sell that can do very well in the shows or a breeding pen. Check references, show wins, etc.....but most importantly know the breed you want to buy and check out the seller.

There are lots of people who call themselves "breeders", but are really only propagators, with no idea how to put birds together that will improve the breed..

Walt

I THINK what I will do - all things considered, is wait the two years my husband has requested of me. He said, if I raise the five chickens we already have, and I thoroughly enjoy it, take excellent care of them without asking him to help (and he shouldn't, they're my project so I understand) - and still am this excited two years from now, he said he has no problem moving to a small place in the country where I can have as many as I want and roosters to go along with them. He said at that point in time he'd be happy to help build whatever is needed for their housing and runs, and separating pens and go with me anywhere I want or need to go to get the chickens I want, and said he would attend shows with me. He just wants me to be in this for 2 years before I go all crazy and start demanding we move and get this and that and the other thing. He has a good head on his shoulders and he's not bossing me around - he's making sense and putting his foot down as a man (in my opinion) should.

I'm willing to wait 2 years and see if my chicken obsession is still going strong. I think it's a fair deal.

In the meantime I'm going to delve a little deeper into breeding quality chickens. I don't have to breed in order to be a reputable and good breeder. Just knowing the proper methods is a step in a very good direction.

I have my eye on the silver grey dorking, but I'm totally interested in learning all about the other breeds that are considered heritage as well.

Just as a small piece of information: I prefer the massive birds (big fat feathery ones) and I'm not keen on tiny bantams. I also favor feathered feet but they're not an absolute MUST have. If there are rare heritage breeds out there that are huge and feathery and feather-footed, that are not very easy to come by - please let me know.

 

[fowlman01]

I THINK what I will do - all things considered, is wait the two years my husband has requested of me. He said, if I raise the five chickens we already have, and I thoroughly enjoy it, take excellent care of them without asking him to help (and he shouldn't, they're my project so I understand) - and still am this excited two years from now, he said he has no problem moving to a small place in the country where I can have as many as I want and roosters to go along with them. He said at that point in time he'd be happy to help build whatever is needed for their housing and runs, and separating pens and go with me anywhere I want or need to go to get the chickens I want, and said he would attend shows with me. He just wants me to be in this for 2 years before I go all crazy and start demanding we move and get this and that and the other thing. He has a good head on his shoulders and he's not bossing me around - he's making sense and putting his foot down as a man (in my opinion) should.

I'm willing to wait 2 years and see if my chicken obsession is still going strong. I think it's a fair deal.

In the meantime I'm going to delve a little deeper into breeding quality chickens. I don't have to breed in order to be a reputable and good breeder. Just knowing the proper methods is a step in a very good direction.

It sounds like a good plan.

In two years .......if you are diligent, you can learn a lot about chickens and if the interest is still there, you will do a better job of finding the right birds and knowing the correct way to breed them. As a heads up.....not a lot of good breeders frequent BYC or any other online venue, so you will have to do a little research to find them. There are a lot of "breeders" on BYC, but most I would not consider real breeders. There are a few here and there are some good ones here, but be careful cuz everyone on here is an expert poultry person....just ask them! Having chickens in your backyard is fairly easy....making them into something better is extremely difficult. It would not have held my interest these last 50 years or so if it was easy. It can be a great hobby.

Walt

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:

 

[MagicChicken]

http://www.standardbreedpoultry.com/breeder/Duane UrchUrch-Turnland Poultry/190


http://standardbredpoultry.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=55&page=1

If you wonder what is considered a Heritage Breed go to the top web page and review Duane Urch breeding list. All of these birds I think fit that list. You dont have to get on a box and scream if your chickens aren't Heritage Breeds. Most of them have been started from the 1950s to the 1800s. I used this term to get the attention of people who want to go from the mean Production Reds that attach their children in the pens to a more docile true to breed original Rhode Island Red. My goal was to try to convince and convert one half of one percent of you people who read this tread. I knew that over 99 percent of the people on this site could care less of the genetic make up or if a breed was in danger in the first place. They are happy as can be with their feed store chickens anyway and in their eyes they are true to breed and are pure breeds as they seem them even if the picture in the catalog does not look like the birds they get they could care less. Also, many are more interested in the color of the egg shell or the color of the chicken if it matches the color of their house.

What we need in the next 20 years is Poultry Hobbyist who will keep a breed going and not let it revert back to hatchery quality levels. If we dint many breeds will become extinct as many have in the first place all ready.

Like Charlie V says you better look at Mr. Urchs list and pick out what you might want as a day will come and he will have to give up his chickens. Father time has a limit to us old breeders and we will be gone be for you know it. I have tried to get you the best stock you can get and help you locate the future mentors of the future and present to help you. Its up to you who want to try to preserve these old breeds. What we need to think is Preservation of a old breed. Not making a new color pattern and get it into the standard.

Got a phone call a few minutes ago from a friend who I helped with chickens in North Carolina who is sending me some Heirloom Garden Seeds. Some over 50 or more years old. This is something I am getting into like many of you who are getting into Heritage Chickens. I am a nu bee and learning. Thanks to all who are helping me in this hobby.

At my old age my son has taught me how to make custom made ink pens with a turning lathe. With his 12 years of experience I have learned so much in just five pens how to do it right it would have taken me at least two years of experience of hard knocks to learn on my own. The morrow of this story you need a mentor for the breed you are going to choose to do it right.

Keep plugging away out their if you like your chickens and you are happy that what counts.

Now I got to go outside and cure two cast Iron Frying pans for my wife.

Walt I saw your dog he is a credit to the breed what a fine looking dog of this breed should look like.

You got any pictures of your hot rods?

You guys have convinced me. Last month I sent Duane Urch a check for 25 black java chicks when they become available in the spring. Last week I found the guy who raised the black java trio I fell in love with at the county fair back in April. He has given his reserve champion trio to 4H, and he was excited that Mr. Urch's chicks will be bringing some new java blood into the area. I can only keep a couple of breeding trios here. Once the chicks have grown out we'll be dividing up the birds to improve both flocks and donating birds to 4H and other breeding programs.

Once the chicks arrive I'll be able to switch my avatar from my "beginner" production red to something more heritage

 

[3riverschick]

I THINK what I will do - all things considered, is wait the two years my husband has requested of me. He said, if I raise the five chickens we already have, and I thoroughly enjoy it, take excellent care of them without asking him to help (and he shouldn't, they're my project so I understand) - and still am this excited two years from now, he said he has no problem moving to a small place in the country where I can have as many as I want and roosters to go along with them. He said at that point in time he'd be happy to help build whatever is needed for their housing and runs, and separating pens and go with me anywhere I want or need to go to get the chickens I want, and said he would attend shows with me. He just wants me to be in this for 2 years before I go all crazy and start demanding we move and get this and that and the other thing. He has a good head on his shoulders and he's not bossing me around - he's making sense and putting his foot down as a man (in my opinion) should.

I'm willing to wait 2 years and see if my chicken obsession is still going strong. I think it's a fair deal.

In the meantime I'm going to delve a little deeper into breeding quality chickens. I don't have to breed in order to be a reputable and good breeder. Just knowing the proper methods is a step in a very good direction.

I have my eye on the silver grey dorking, but I'm totally interested in learning all about the other breeds that are considered heritage as well.

Just as a small piece of information: I prefer the massive birds (big fat feathery ones) and I'm not keen on tiny bantams. I also favor feathered feet but they're not an absolute MUST have. If there are rare heritage breeds out there that are huge and feathery and feather-footed, that are not very easy to come by - please let me know.

Sounds like the Favorelle fits the bill.

Whatta guy! Sounds like your hubby has a great plan! It's also a great idea to get a season of hatching under your belt before you start with the top quality birds. In the meantime, I found books a great way to supplement my poultry education. They aren't cheap, but a top source of quality info you will need regardless of which breed you choose.
1. Genetics of Chicken Colours-The Basics by Van Dort, Hancox and friends. (covers plumage)
2. Genetics of Chicken Extemities by Van Dort ( covers everything but plumage) 1 & 2 avilable at : http://chickencolours.com/
3. APA Standard of Perfection by APA (especially 1st 38 pages which include general poultry and breeding knowledge).
http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/APA_ShoppingMall3.htm
Best Success,
Karen

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: Agreed. Breeding is not about pairing up the right two. I am not necessarily keeping the best birds so my culls may or may not be show quality (and a person inevitably asks me why I am not keeping this one or that one-- it may be because I have the brother right there that I like a little better or because I already have enough pullets I have selected for that particular group; heck sometimes it is a stupid reason). What I am keeping is the best birds for my particular goals from each group. One group may not be up to the par of another group in totality but necessary nonetheless for preserving the genetics of my flock as a whole. Also, I never want a new problem so will not keep anything that has something I don't want started anywhere. However, overall, I have found that as far as getting the better specimens, the apple does not fall too far from the tree. In other words, like produces like for the most part. Breed a bird that has a fault or something you do not desire (but you are using for another trait) and the trait you don't want shows up too, shows up a lot. I don't accept a bad trait in a second generation. I will keep a bird because it has one trait I sorely need (no matter its other faults unless a new problem).

With other breeders seeking stock from me, I ask, "What are you trying to improve or correct?" I will sell or give them a bird from my flock exhibiting something they need. With someone like Don Schrider, I just bring some stock and let him pick what he wants. Fortunately, my breed is easy to select and so just some good genetics to start with & you're on your way (i.e. they propagate well). About the Buckeye, one breeder at the Ohio National a few weeks ago told me (and I agree), "the Buckeye is a farm chicken, a homestead fowl, that we clean up and bring to the show." That is literally true. Mine are running around in the pasture, the barns, the forest, the front yard, all about. A couple of weeks before the show, I look around as to who looks good, catch a few, weigh them, look them over, cage the ones I think are or will show well at that time for the first time, give 'em a bath a week before and show them -- no pampering, nothing special. When you are selecting for meat for your table each week, as I, then you become more particular about type & production qualities -- it is what I eat for my chicken so for me & my purpose, the show is a secondary thing -- a way to showcase the breed and get some feedback. In the end, I am mostly concerned about meat for the table and that is what I will select for. Same with the La Fleche I am starting out with; I will do the same. What I have found is when I select for meat for the table, that also does good at the few shows I have been to.