Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[aveca]

 It's fun to browse these old "secrets" and faking books. My fav is Hubbard's Poultry Secrets  .
 Medicine stuff and cures should be double checked with your vet or ignored if you can't, as most all is obsolete. We have more modern ways now.
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Secrets of expert exhibitors and easy lessons in judging

Subtitle: "An exposition of the methods employed by breeders of standard-bred fowls in preparing their birds for poultry shows, including many dishonest schemes occasionally preacticed"

 By Frank Heck

American Poultry Journal  1920
 (Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/anf4qfw  
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Tricks of the Poultry Trade: Some Methods, Little Things and "nigh Cuts" Practiced Among the "Initiated" of the Craft

edited by Reese Victor Hicks (editor "Poultry Culture"

Published by Poultry Culture Publishing, Kansas, 1909, 1910
 (Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/b52rbhk   

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Hubbard's Poultry Secrets on Mating, Feeding and

Conditioning Fancy Poultry for the Show Room.

By Charles Henry Hubbard

Appears to be self-published (1915)
http://tinyurl.com/axuzsof (Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/au39t84  (HathiDigital Trust)
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The Art of Faking Exhibition Poultry: An Examination of the Faker's Methods and Processes With Some Observations on Their Detection

By George R. Scott

Home Farm Books, Nov 30, 2008 - 132 pages

Home Farm Books are republishing these classic works in affordable, high quality, modern editions, using the original text and artwork.
Originally published London, 1934. A fascinating insight into the art of faking poultry for show or exhibition winning purposes. Contents Include: Faking and its Problems - The Psychology of Faking - Modern Tendencies in Faking - The Detection of Faking - The Techniques of Faking - Dying Plumage - Bleaching Plumage - Faking Leg Colour - Inserting and Extracting Feathers - Faking Lobes - Colouring Eggs - Dyes Employed - Chemicals Used in Faking - etc. Many of the earliest books, particularly those dating back to the 1900s and before, are now extremely scarce and increasingly expensive. Home Farm Books are republishing these classic works in affordable, high quality, modern editions, using the original text and artwork.
The Art of Faking Exhibition Poultry, which condemned the practice while giving precise instructions on how it could be done .
Available all over the Net , starting about 21.00
Have bought books before from Home Farm Books. They do a nice job on the reprints.

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Poultry secrets.

by Boyer, Michael K. 1858-

Published 1909

(HathiDigital Trust)
http://tinyurl.com/b9fafkd

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Poultry secrets revealed,by Townsend, Charles F.

Published 1911

(HathiDigital Trust)
http://tinyurl.com/cc9cyey

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Secrets in fowl breeding.  A companion treatise to "Diseases of domestic poultry." ...

by Burnham, Geo. P. 1814-1902.

Published 1877

(HathiDigital Trust)
http://tinyurl.com/bab5dzp
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Best Regards,
 Karen

i have this in my kindle...love it..plus many more..In one of these old books they talked about these guys called the chicken fixers. They literally got
Paid to go round and sharpen up show stock..showed their before and after handi. Work..pretty impressive what they could do.Hubbard literally tells you cheater secrets..interesting they went to all that trouble..I wouldn't..I like learning more from judges how to correct small problem much more.

 

[NYREDS]

Walt, is it possible to fake breeds?

Like, say you had a ok looking Barred Rock. Med sized, with uneven barring.

What if you told the judge that the bird was a Dominique?

Since Rocks are single combed & Dominiques are rose combed I think you'd be hard pressed to pass one off as the other.

 

[Chloe77]

Since Rocks are single combed & Dominiques are rose combed I think you'd be hard pressed to pass one off as the other.

Oh. I didn't know Dominiques were rose combed.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

Oh. I didn't know Dominiques were rose combed.

What about Barred Hollands being mistaken for Barred Rocks? or vice versa?

 

[Wynette]

.....anyway....

I have a legitimate question.

I am curious about how many have or would consider outcrossing to a different breed to improve the breed they're working on. I've had a few folks tell me that I ought to consider using a Dark Brahma to cross on my Silver Penciled Rocks to improve size. I get where they're coming from, as the pattern is the same, and I've seen some VERY good penciling on many of them. However, wouldn't it take me 8-10 generations to remove all that I DO NOT want from that cross? I'm not convinced that this is the way to go, but it does make me curious about other folks who have crossed to a different breed. Is this "common" practice?

 

[Chloe77]

What about Barred Hollands being mistaken for Barred Rocks? or vice versa?

I looked Barred Hollands up. I can't tell the difference!!

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

I looked Barred Hollands up. I can't tell the difference!!

Very similar in look, BUT, SOP calls for 5 comb points in Plymouth Rocks, 6 in Hollands. SOP calls for higher tail angle in male/female Hollands than in Rocks. Rocks are a slightly heavier bird than a Holland

All based on SOP definitions

 

[surnikis]

Getting on to the out-cross of a blue andalusian to improve type and lacing , the reference was made from a exhibitionists / breeders point of view. . To explain for a better understanding .....Most breeds of chickens are purchased from commercial hatcheries , these birds do have a place and are enjoyed by many. But when it comes to most breeds the concentration and line breeding to obtain a true specimen of the breed (per the apa standard) has been given up for production and feed conversion . So the reference of an out cross was made with the mental picture of most production andalusians.
I have bred and exhibited birds for 35 years and have evolved as not someone that " Buys a winner" but someone that breeds and exhibits his own lines to win. If all a person wants is a "pure bred" that is fine but dont expect to be able to consistantly win at shows(some of the rare breeds may place but never make champion). Remember a pure bred stock is a group of crosses that was isolated and line bred for generations until it breeds true to color and type . The only true pure bred would be the jungle fowl. that being said , it is very ethical to make an outcross into a breed to obtain changes in form to improve an objective that may take up to 5 -10 years to permanatly see the result.
Most of the time it is best to stay within the classes to achieve the results desired quicker (ie, Mediterranean , english, asiatic, american ect) . but again it may take years to perfect with line breeding.
So an out cross for color of an andalusian , should be with a black bird , either an andalusian "black sport" or a minorca. If a minorca was used it would improve size, and color , then you would need prob a minimum of 3 - 5 years to lock the type back in as a minorca has too long of a back. you would use the hens that have best type and color using a black male sport or splash that has type . you will produce excellent lacing on this cross in both males and females but it is not an overnight change . To breed winning andalusions is difficult once you get them going you need almost 3 groups breeding to keep proper type and color

 

[Chris09]

I agree with what Scott said and will add that the Barred Plymouth Rock has barring where the Barred Holland is a Cuckoo pattern.

To try to pass a Barred Holland off as a Barred Rock would be like trying to pass a Production Red off as a Rhode Island Red.


Chris

 

[fowlman01]

Walt, is it possible to fake breeds?

Like, say you had a ok looking Barred Rock. Med sized, with uneven barring.

What if you told the judge that the bird was a Dominique?

Well....that would be a lie.

Judges can only judge what they see. Many years ago a bantam won a big show as a white Plymouth Rock.....it wasn't a Rock. It was an Orpington/Wyndotte cross that looked like a white plymouth rock. I had never seen that bird before, but after the show the owner told me what he had done. Since people sometimes cross breeds to improve the one they are working on and show the offspring as pure, I'm not sure I would call this instance faking. I don't know....it is a rare example of what you asked about.

The judge can only go by what they see.

Walt