Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Bentley]

Ah well. I'm hopping out of the sandbox.
[/quote]

Mikaela, I always thought people jumped upon a soapbox to preach. Why do you get in a sandbox to state your opinion? Haha, generation gap?

 

[neopolitancrazy]

If the breed is supposed to have a trait and that trait is lost, why lose that trait forever when you can fix the problem with a simple addition of a breed that was used to create that trait in the first place? After so many generations, that trait is re-embedded and will breed true once more.

Ah well. I'm hopping out of the sandbox.

If my understanding is correct, the Dorking is a foundational breed, and the Sussex a derivative breed, so cappayvalley has a legitimate point in avoiding outcrossing to "improve" her chosen breed. However, Kathyinmo is using the original foundation breeds to re-create the derivative Delaware breed, so her situation seems very different to me.
Just my opinion,
Angela

 

[Marengoite]

Mikaela, I always thought people jumped upon a soapbox to preach. Why do you get in a sandbox to state your opinion? Haha, generation gap?

The soapbox is where we preach. The sandbox is where we play. Not everyone plays well in the sandbox. When that happens, some folks leave.

Mixing metaphors is fun.

rick

 

[galanie]

I brought imported English blood back into the SOP Buff Orpingtons this

year. Here is a photo of a TEN WEEK old trio that I shipped off this week...... Please compare the pullet on the right with my avatar. She is just a baby without her main tail yet, but the shape/ type is the same. She will be spectacular at 1 year old. The predictabliity of SOP birds who are well bred, in living  color.

Love to hear your input guys !

I'm no help here not being an old breeder but I just want to grab those up and love them. What a chest on that baby!

 

[Pozees]

I'm no help here not being an old breeder but I just want to grab those up and love them. What a chest on that baby!

LOL I had the exact same thought! They look beautiful to me, but my opinion has no experience behind it, just know what I like

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

We need to ask ourselves, why do we keep livestock? Why do we try to preserve rare breeds? Early man kept birds around for their meat, eggs, and for sport. As the concepts of selective breeding took its toll on early fowls, the breeds changed to suit mans' needs. As this went on different breeds arose from local types adapted to that environment. These birds were subsequently breed because they were good at creating food, a neccessity to humans. When we compare breeds today we see each has a special quality(s) that make them neccesary. When the APA formed they were not concerned about saving an old breed just to save. They demanded utility. Isn't that what heritage birds are all about? Have we been caught up in the romantacism of breeds' origins that we forget their real utility? Are we more concerned about saving old lines, or more about saving their utility? The bird is just the mechanism used to deliver these traits be it meat, eggs, show or a combintation of all three. If that bird no longer fills these utilities then is it really that breed? Who cares what lies behind it 10 generations ago,If it is shaped like a certain breed, breeds true and has the same traditional utility as a certain breed isnt that enough?
If you can honestly say your birds meet APA requirments and purpose and can be traced back for years and years and have had no crossbreeding, then that's just icing on the cake. And that should be everyones goal, sometimes it just isnt realistic.

I think even with the old foundation breeds like Dorkings, or any breed of poultry and livestock, you are going to be hard pressed to find individuals that at one point in their long history didn't have some other breed or some or some other variety crossed into it.
For example the cuckoo Dorking. This variety was admitted in 1998, so not an old variety at all. My question is where did it come from? Did they randomly show up in some strain of Silver-Gray? (doubtful) or were they likely crossed with some other breed? are they then not worthy of preservation? Should they not be considered Dorkings if they have been crossbred?
We see this with large livestock. If i'm not mistaken the Dutch Belted cattle have an upgrading system where bulls can be crossed to other breeds to increase their numbers. Then after this initial cross they are selected for traditional Dutch belted characterisrics. Having a grade Dutch Belted is better than having none at all or highly inbred ones. And as a bonus the milk yield will likely increase making them more popular. breeds change constantly to suit man's needs and wants. sometimes for good and sometimes for bad.

Now, I am not syaing go crossing everything willy nilly. When we do crosssbreed we need to be responsible about it. we need to breed birds according to their purpose, type, size, and color. If we just so happen to need to crossbreed to get back to that then what's so wrong with that?

Quote:
This is one reason we breed the Self Blue (Lavender) Orpingtons back to a quality Black Orpington line every other generation. Its a new variety in an old breed. When its over, the Self Blue Orpington will be "pure" Orpington and Self Blue. Below is a comparison of Hinkjc Mountain's latest generation of Self Blue and one of their Black Orpington. The type is almost there!

This same breeding process can be used in any breed to introduce/reintroduce a trait (i.e. Self Blue color) into a breed.

 

[kathyinmo]

This is one reason we breed the Self Blue (Lavender) Orpingtons back to a quality Black Orpington line every other generation. Its a new variety in an old breed. When its over, the Self Blue Orpington will be "pure" Orpington and Self Blue. Below is a comparison of Hinkjc Mountain's latest generation of Self Blue and one of their Black Orpington. The type is almost there!

This same breeding process can be used in any breed to introduce/reintroduce a trait (i.e. Self Blue color) into a breed.

I don't think lavender Orps are "Heritage Large Fowl," are they?
Are there any "Heritage Large Fowl," (title of this thread) that are Lavender?

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
What Vickie, aka Thedragonlady, has done is take an old American line of Buff Orpingtons and outcrossed to an old European line of Buff Orpingtons. These lines were seperated by 100 years and an ocean. Most know how I feel about the UK lines, but the one she used had excellent type. With her keen eye she has improved upon the parents on both sides. Below are the American grandparents of her pictured Buff Orpingtons.

 

[Bentley]

The soapbox is where we preach. The sandbox is where we play. Not everyone plays well in the sandbox. When that happens, some folks leave. 

Mixing metaphors is fun.

rick

I guess I mixed up my boxes.

Hope people don't take things personal and take offense to an individuals time on the soapbox that they jump out of the sandbox altogether. Raising and breeding poultry is lots of fun, mix a little passion in there and then sandbox time can get quite interesting, especially if you happen to find something a cat left in the sand. If so, just get it out of the way and go back to playing

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
The Self Blue, as the SOP calls it, was first accepted in the 1960's in Old English. Thus is a Heritage color in that breed. Orpingtons are a heritage breed. Self Blue is just a newer color. The Self Blue Old English is a Heritage Breed!

However, it was the breeding method I was pointing out, not the breed/color.

Self Blue Old English
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