Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[aveca]

I'm just curious..a lot of breeding stations around the world let's say breeding cattle..are working hard to increase muscle mass, Size ect as in meat production..would it be such a bad thing in some breeds the bigger boned and muscle birds looking at it from that perspective.?..the birds of the turn of the century were very different than today's through different breeding, feeding practice.I think they would be a little green with envy at a few of today's birds .as long as the birds are healthy rather robust..Just looking at it like it is meat , egg product.. Just trying to understand.. There is a part of me that thinks...outside of bantam..isn't that the point? Bigger, more meat per bird.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

You are beating a dead horse on this weight issue. Ask yourself if you ever been to a Poultry Show has anyone protested a Rhode Island Red or a White Rock Large fowl for being over weight and on champion Row? If they did the judge would go to the show sectary and say can I please have your scale so I can weigh the bird. The show sectary would tell the judge I don't have one.

So unless the shows have scales and they will use them in such a case for get this issue and take the responsibility yourself.

I have told you be for one pound over standard weight is about the best weight to reach the best type on a large fowl at least in the American Class such as Rocks and Reds.

You have to decide if you want to breed to win or breed to the Standard of Perfection.

Its so simple. I hope we can get back to the job of trying to find homes for these rare breeds and not worry about things most of us can not control.

Do beginners want to see this kind of stuff? They want to convert from scrubs to Standard Breed Fowl when they come onto this tread or at least think about it.

Found some Black Jersey Giants for my new friends. Whats NEXT?

Some of us do!! I weighed my birds in preparation for my first show because I was curious how they stacked up against what was in the SOP. I was shocked to find out my birds were all significantly over the SOP weights - yet they all did well at the show - and were even beaten by some that were significantly bigger than them. This information got me asking a lot of questions - and, as usual, I'm learning loads.

 

[imtrying]

interesting word choice: preserve. i haven't finished the updates for the day, but i'm curious robert - - - how do you feel about using "outcrosses"? is that preserving as defined by you? or is it the antithesis?

Which of these pictures do you wish to PRESERVE?

There is a choice.


Only 1% of the people on this web site want to be a Poultry Preservationist.


What do you want to be????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Robert Blosl]

Well looks like we got back on the road and we are going down the middle of the road for a change. Think of our dear fried in Chicken Heaven Ralph Bazelton on that on.


I was outside playing tilling up my HEIRLOOM GARDEN for this spring with all my great seeds I have had sent to me. The dirt looks week needs some mulch some manure. Well Hell nothing has been planted in it in 50 years I guess its fresh and tied. But in time it will be a factory of fresh Organic Vegetables that is my goal. I am a rookie at this. I have not raised a garden since I left home from Washington in the 1960s but I am willing to learn.

The definitions of what a Standard Breed Preservationist is wonder full. Just tell your self that's what I want to do and if you show your birds let the chips fall as they may. You will win 50% of the shows you go to if you breed to Standard. Some judges don't see it maybe as you do but don't give up.

I got a wild hair up my nose today and it says why not get some Barred Rock Large Fowl and some Silver Pencil led Large Fowl down here. Next year when I show them people will come up to me and say I want some of those pretty chickens. Then I will say see those red and green leg bands on these birds. This is your matting to take home. Now go out and share with others next years.

I will also have the Motled Javas will do the same with them and if I go to Newnan Georgia in February Next year I will take a couple of trios and share them with those folks.

If you won with a nice bird such as a White Rock ckl and you weighed them and they are 8 1/2 pounds and some one tells you they are to big they may mean big like in loose feathers or fluffy.

I looked at my two White Rock Ckls who are getting ready for the show in February and I know they will say they are to small Bob. But they weigh 8 1/2 pounds. They dont fill up the cage like a standard breed chicken is suppose to.

Well tough crap buster you dont breed by the standard . My birds are tight feathered like a game chicken and thats what I am going to breed. At least I dont have to pull their butt feathers out every year when hatching time comes around. They breed naturally. Its just a matter of opion that's all.

That is how I was taught by the old men with a 8th grade education in the 1960s and that is the way I will breed them.

You all have a nice night see you tomorrow. bob

 

[ashandvine]

This is the knowledge on which I will stand in my Light Sussex breeding program.

The point of all this is, I don't see the point in breeding the fowl unless one is going to stay true to the history and function of the fowl within the Standard of Perfection.
Best Success,
Karen

I always enjoy your posts and this one is no different. To approach your breed having researched the reason for and merits of being bred as it was is admirable. I would agree that you are a preservationist of a heritage breed.

I'm just curious..a lot of breeding stations around the world let's say breeding cattle..are working hard to increase muscle mass, Size ect as in meat production..would it be such a bad thing in some breeds the bigger boned and muscle birds looking at it from that perspective.?..the birds of the turn of the century were very different than today's through different breeding, feeding practice.I think they would be a little green with envy at a few of today's birds .as long as the birds are healthy rather robust..Just looking at it like it is meat , egg product.. Just trying to understand..

There is a part of me that thinks...outside of bantam..isn't that the point? Bigger, more meat per bird.

Your question has been asked in many different ways in here and other threads that deal with sop. The synopsis as I have noticed is that what you do is your choice and like an opinion it will have those that agree and those that do not.

 

[ashandvine]

We are not an "organization," so I don't believe it applies to us.

We who Ms Kathy? We the preservationists, we the byc crowd, we the propagators?
I ask again, how do you know the difference between propagators and preservationists? In business, preservation organizations are not adhering to any standard as they breed. They are breeding to keep species present. Are they not preservationists? I am asking because recent language and philosophy in this thread has contemplated the the merit of those who choose to breed and how they go about it, then labels have been conjured and their merits contemplated. I am stirring that pot a little but I think it is important to ask if being so stringent in defining legitimate breeders is able to be mixed with the question of preservation when a judgement of acceptance is called for. Preservation, in my mind-- the picture of the pickled chicken not withstanding, is about maintaining, keeping it. Heritage is about history and inHERITing something of that history. If the Romantic language of heirloom and heritage is to be disregarded, despite its marketing ability to make people want to be preservationists, then the language that is used to define breeders as preservationists or propagators seems to rest singularly on the action of the word Standards and not heritage. An heirloom, from a historically legal stand point is an item passed down from generation to generation, inherited by the named or otherwise legal heir. In this vein the suggestion that standards be a regular qualification of preservationists makes good sense. Now... about these propagators.... I think it might be better to woo them with romantic language than exclude them with linguistic standards of our own.

 

[Chris09]

I know you're going to froth at the mouth when I say this. BOTH should be preserved.

Why would you need to preserve a Production Red?
You can get them at every Hatchery.


Chris

 

[mschlumb]

I'm just curious..a lot of breeding stations around the world let's say breeding cattle..are working hard to increase muscle mass, Size ect as in meat production..would it be such a bad thing in some breeds the bigger boned and muscle birds looking at it from that perspective.?..the birds of the turn of the century were very different than today's through different breeding, feeding practice.I think they would be a little green with envy at a few of today's birds .as long as the birds are healthy rather robust..Just looking at it like it is meat , egg product.. Just trying to understand.. There is a part of me that thinks...outside of bantam..isn't that the point? Bigger, more meat per bird.

Since heritage birds are not used for large scale meat production that's really pointless.
That is what broilers are for

 

[galanie]

Well, to be fair, size isn't 100% a man thing. The biggest lie most women will ever say? "Size doesn't matter!"

I've read often about how easy it is to breed down and how difficult it is to breed up, when it comes to the size of our birds. If they start weighing and DQ birds too big? That will be a ton easier to 'fix' than these tiny specimens that hatcheries advertise as full blood!

 

[mschlumb]

They don't always do a tech inspection after a race either unless there is a protest. Depends on the type of racing etc. As it stands now I feel weighing is the responsibility of the club putting on the show. It has been done...with a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth by the exhibitors. One that I witnessed involved weighing a gray Call duck. The exhibitor knew the bird was going to be weighed, so all of a sudden this duck had lots of "jewelry" on it's legs in the way of metal bands and spirals etc. It probably had some metal inserted in other areas as well. It barely made the wieght.

This is not a new subject and it doesn't concern me as much as some here because I know that if the birds get too big it takes care of itself with skeletal or reproductive problems for the overweight and reproduction problems for the underweight. This has been argued for years. Judges do not have time to weigh the birds, so it is the show clubs responsibility to weigh the birds. Good luck with that though. IMO the judges responsibility is to be sure not to reward over/under birds based on their opinion of the weight. If you don't know, don't DQ.....but you can place it further down the class instead of rewarding it for not following the SOP.

I would guess from handling your SPR's that they are not far off the SOP weight. I can't think of a breed that would warrant raising the weight in the SOP.

Walt

This is what I have been trying to get across about weights. "If you don't know, don't DQ"