Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[hcammack]

Here is the Faverolles cockerel I processed. Most delicious chicken I have ever eaten. Incredibly flavorful.

 

[Chris09]

saladin,

To this day I still like the idea of having a wider classification and not just the term "heritage".
I always did like the classes you came up with where you broke the breeds down by dates documented [Ancient Pre 1600, Modern 1600-1845 and Industrial 1845-1940] and had really nothing to do with the APA Standard or what the ALBC thinks a heritage breed should or should not be.


Chris

 

[Robert Blosl]

If I used the term Stanard Breed Large Fowl in this tread do you think I would have had the success of luring you over from the commercial chicken normal TREADS??????????????????????

I dont think so. I started some other threads and they died in four of six pages.

I dont like this term but this is the term Frank Reese asked me to push. Why I dont know. Maybe he has a trick up his sleeve down the road to help the APA in inspecting flocks of people as a judge to confirm you stain of old large fowl is suite able to be called Heritage. My old mentors such as Maurice Wallace of Canada who helped me with Rhode Island Reds and Franklin J Young of Minnesota called and used the term Standard Breed Birds. In a way Standards are large fowl Bantams are bantams bantam ducks are bantam ducks ect.

I consider the term Standard breed large fowl as large fowl that are breed to the APA standard of Perfection and would at least score about 92 points out of a hundred. Now no judge today is going to say I judge by the old fashion Scoring system. I judge by comparison judging they will say. But if you read some of the old poultry books and breed books they did have point cuts for color and type combs ect and these old boys scored each bird and wrote the score on the coop tag. The bird with the highest score won the class and was in the run for say Champion American or Champion English or Mediterranean class. Then the bird that looked the best or scored the highest if there was a tie the judges would look them over and then they would decide who was worthy for best and second best large fowl of the show. So just go back 60 years or so about the time all of these breeds that I consider to be Heritage or part of the group that was in the APA standard of Perfection for say the 1962 issue was judged by ten old timers who where judging your strain say at a poultry show your birds would average 92 points or higher. Lets say you had a two cock birds two hens two old trios two cockerels two pullets and two young trios. That's a good average number of birds. Do they score at least 92 points? If you had chicken like I had to begin with barred rocks from my uncle which look like the thousands of barred rocks sold each year they would score about 85 points and most of them would be disqualified.

So when I get personnel message from a father wanting to get his two girls some Barred Rock Large Fowl like yesterday. What or who do I send them to. They have all ready the Tractor Supply type of Barred Rocks. They are smart enough to see that they do not look like the pictures in the catalogs that the hatcheries show for this breed. So I send them to a person who has a flock that has at least 94 points per average and the males have good finished tails at 9 months of age. You can get a start from any buddy but its cheaper to get a start from a person who has a great gene pool and then you have a little wiggle room if you screw up in your first five years. If they are line breed correctly and they are a uniform bunch of birds they will breed true for color and type for about five years be for they start to return to the orgin they where once be for improved by breeding by selection to the Standard of Perfection.

Barred Rocks are on the top of the list of Heritage or Standard Breed Large Fowl. They where started in the 1860s and latter improved.

I have a plan in my head that I am going to put into this computer on How to Get Started with Heritage Large Fowl but Don't know How.

I will use the example of two breeds Mottled Javas and Light Sussex large fowl. That's pretty much rare and off the wall from the normal birds such as Rocks and Reds.

So if we start with two males and two females then we hatch the young chicks then I walk you through step by step to adult hood and then we bring your best four males and six females to a show in December such as the New Winter Show in Pensacola Floria that we stared early this month. Then we will look at all the bird you brought plus my same number of birds and we will select the breeders for the following year. Any surplus birds that we will not use will be shared with two others who want to start these to new strains. This is like breeding 101 or Breeding for Dummies type of article. All you have to do is exchange Mottle Javas for your favorite breed. It will all be the same if I had 50 different breeds brought to this show and you asked us and a few supper star large fowl judges how to go about this. So in the next few days I will get this out of my head on paper and then share it with you.

One thing we will not do and that is cross different strains from other people to get started. That is a beginners night mare. We also will not cross black Javas onto mottled Javas.

We will stick with What We Have. One of my mentors once told me on the phone Start With What you Have. Then move forward and improve.

Well kick the can down the road. If you need some breeds let me know. Just don't get to car red away with the color you want. The pretty er they are the harder they are to breed.

Walt would you like to come out to Pensacola Florida and judge one Dec or March some day? We only pick the top Large Fowl judges for this show. You are part of the group and New York Reds would be great to get as well.

Out side to give my chickens some warm water and high protein feed it was cold down here last night but no snow. bob

 

[saladin]

saladin,

To this day I still like the idea of having a wider classification and not just the term "heritage".
I always did like the classes you came up with where you broke the breeds down by dates documented [Ancient Pre 1600, Modern 1600-1845 and Industrial 1845-1940] and had really nothing to do with the APA Standard or what the ALBC thinks a heritage breed should or should not be.


Chris

It is nice to be loved by somebody! LOL.

Thanks Chris.

I shouldn't have started my little rampage again; I know. But the whole concept of 'heritage' leaving out the world's OLDEST DOCUMENTED breed just gets under my skin. Especially when that same breed antedates many breeds in the Standard in its arrival in North America. Further, it is in the basic makeup of the Cornish which is considered a 'heritage' breed. Go figure that one?

 

[melroseladi]

I don't know the correct term to use to describe these birds, what's really proper, what's not proper. What I do know is when I got chickens to raise and to introduce my grandchildren to the world of poultry, the RIR that I got was no where near what the RIRs were that my grandma raised and fed us on. My hatchery RIR, Lily, is a wonderful bird. She is a great layer, she is a good brooder, mother, forager, and she certainly earns her keep. What she is not is a RIR, regardless of what the hatchery may call her.

How sad it would be for future generations to believe that birds like Lily are the RIRs that our forefathers raised and fed their families on. That is why I want to raise and breed the real deal. I do not want those genes lost to the future. Once the genes are gone, they are gone.

When I sit and read these threads and hear of lines that go back a hundred or more years, it is amazing to me. Those genetics need to be preserved and passed on, regardless of what different associations, clubs, or what evers want to call them. They are a very important part of our past and need to be a part of our future.

Penny

 

[Fred's Hens]

It is nice to be loved by somebody! LOL.

Thanks Chris.

I shouldn't have started my little rampage again; I know. But the whole concept of 'heritage' leaving out the world's OLDEST DOCUMENTED breed just gets under my skin. Especially when that same breed antedates many breeds in the Standard in its arrival in North America. Further, it is in the basic makeup of the Cornish which is considered a 'heritage' breed. Go figure that one?

Go figure that by the ALBC's own definition would exclude the Asil (Aseel) and then, later in discussing the breed, the ALBC goes to reasonably great lengths to list it, discuss it, etc.

So, while I am not a member, like all such organizations, there will be that hiccup or two of logic along the way. Does this, therefor, invalidate the ideals around which the organization was formed and those goals for which it works? I don't think so.

 

[catdaddyfro]

I have not had the same experiences others must have. I have found poultry breeders to be a generous bunch. Poultry enthusiasts in general are friendly people. Opinionated maybe, but good people.

There just isn't a lot of people breeding some breeds, and it takes time to learn how to locate them. I have found that when the breeders are located, that they are usually happy to help. Many of them are glad to meet someone that shares a common intersest.

I would say that it is easier now than it has ever been to find what you want. We can't expect everyone to do something for us. Some will, some will not. Sometimes it is just timing.

Maybe it is that it is too easy, and we expect it to always be easy.

If someone gets discouraged trying to source some birds, then I cannot imagine them getting far with them if they did get them.

I would have to agree right here with you George for sure.

Also to BYC may not be everybody's cup of tea either (don't know why they keep visiting if it is so bad) but too I have found everything I've sought for so far right here with the exception of good Delawares but I got the ingredients and the recipe to make my own now, thanks to folks I met right here on the BYC. I also have gotten to know a bunch of new friends while lurking around and posting on here and I have learned a lot too, some good and some not so good. Now with all that said there are things that go on here I don't care for, some I even scoff at and think are ridiculous, but I try to steer clear of those areas and don't go there. LOL

Jeff

 

[fowlman01]

If I used the term Stanard Breed Large Fowl in this tread do you think I would have had the success of luring you over from the commercial chicken normal TREADS??????????????????????

I dont think so. I started some other threads and they died in four of six pages.

I dont like this term but this is the term Frank Reese asked me to push. Why I dont know. Maybe he has a trick up his sleeve down the road to help the APA in inspecting flocks of people as a judge to confirm you stain of old large fowl is suite able to be called Heritage. My old mentors such as Maurice Wallace of Canada who helped me with Rhode Island Reds and Franklin J Young of Minnesota called and used the term Standard Breed Birds. In a way Standards are large fowl Bantams are bantams bantam ducks are bantam ducks ect.

I consider the term Standard breed large fowl as large fowl that are breed to the APA standard of Perfection and would at least score about 92 points out of a hundred. Now no judge today is going to say I judge by the old fashion Scoring system. I judge by comparison judging they will say. But if you read some of the old poultry books and breed books they did have point cuts for color and type combs ect and these old boys scored each bird and wrote the score on the coop tag. The bird with the highest score won the class and was in the run for say Champion American or Champion English or Mediterranean class. Then the bird that looked the best or scored the highest if there was a tie the judges would look them over and then they would decide who was worthy for best and second best large fowl of the show. So just go back 60 years or so about the time all of these breeds that I consider to be Heritage or part of the group that was in the APA standard of Perfection for say the 1962 issue was judged by ten old timers who where judging your strain say at a poultry show your birds would average 92 points or higher. Lets say you had a two cock birds two hens two old trios two cockerels two pullets and two young trios. That's a good average number of birds. Do they score at least 92 points? If you had chicken like I had to begin with barred rocks from my uncle which look like the thousands of barred rocks sold each year they would score about 85 points and most of them would be disqualified.

So when I get personnel message from a father wanting to get his two girls some Barred Rock Large Fowl like yesterday. What or who do I send them to. They have all ready the Tractor Supply type of Barred Rocks. They are smart enough to see that they do not look like the pictures in the catalogs that the hatcheries show for this breed. So I send them to a person who has a flock that has at least 94 points per average and the males have good finished tails at 9 months of age. You can get a start from any buddy but its cheaper to get a start from a person who has a great gene pool and then you have a little wiggle room if you screw up in your first five years. If they are line breed correctly and they are a uniform bunch of birds they will breed true for color and type for about five years be for they start to return to the orgin they where once be for improved by breeding by selection to the Standard of Perfection.

Barred Rocks are on the top of the list of Heritage or Standard Breed Large Fowl. They where started in the 1860s and latter improved.

I have a plan in my head that I am going to put into this computer on How to Get Started with Heritage Large Fowl but Don't know How.

I will use the example of two breeds Mottled Javas and Light Sussex large fowl. That's pretty much rare and off the wall from the normal birds such as Rocks and Reds.

So if we start with two males and two females then we hatch the young chicks then I walk you through step by step to adult hood and then we bring your best four males and six females to a show in December such as the New Winter Show in Pensacola Floria that we stared early this month. Then we will look at all the bird you brought plus my same number of birds and we will select the breeders for the following year. Any surplus birds that we will not use will be shared with two others who want to start these to new strains. This is like breeding 101 or Breeding for Dummies type of article. All you have to do is exchange Mottle Javas for your favorite breed. It will all be the same if I had 50 different breeds brought to this show and you asked us and a few supper star large fowl judges how to go about this. So in the next few days I will get this out of my head on paper and then share it with you.

One thing we will not do and that is cross different strains from other people to get started. That is a beginners night mare. We also will not cross black Javas onto mottled Javas.

We will stick with What We Have. One of my mentors once told me on the phone Start With What you Have. Then move forward and improve.

Well kick the can down the road. If you need some breeds let me know. Just don't get to car red away with the color you want. The pretty er they are the harder they are to breed.

Walt would you like to come out to Pensacola Florida and judge one Dec or March some day? We only pick the top Large Fowl judges for this show. You are part of the group and New York Reds would be great to get as well.

Out side to give my chickens some warm water and high protein feed it was cold down here last night but no snow. bob

I would love to come out Bob. Just give me plenty of advance warning.

w.

 

[Texasmja]

I have a plan in my head that I am going to put into this computer on How to Get Started with Heritage Large Fowl but Don't know How.

I will use the example of two breeds Mottled Javas and Light Sussex large fowl. That's pretty much rare and off the wall from the normal birds such as Rocks and Reds.

So if we start with two males and two females then we hatch the young chicks then I walk you through step by step to adult hood and then we bring your best four males and six females to a show in December such as the New Winter Show in Pensacola Floria that we stared early this month. Then we will look at all the bird you brought plus my same number of birds and we will select the breeders for the following year. Any surplus birds that we will not use will be shared with two others who want to start these to new strains. This is like breeding 101 or Breeding for Dummies type of article. All you have to do is exchange Mottle Javas for your favorite breed. It will all be the same if I had 50 different breeds brought to this show and you asked us and a few supper star large fowl judges how to go about this. So in the next few days I will get this out of my head on paper and then share it with you.

Mr. Bob, I am looking forward to reading and learning, thank you for taking the time to put your knowledge down in writing and sharing it with us all. I study everything I get a old of, make lots of notes and then go out and look at my chickens. I am always in the mood to learn.

Many thanks again, Melissa

 

[saladin]

Go figure that by the ALBC's own definition would exclude the Asil (Aseel) and then, later in discussing the breed, the ALBC goes to reasonably great lengths to list it, discuss it, etc.

So, while I am not a member, like all such organizations, there will be that hiccup or two of logic along the way. Does this, therefor, invalidate the ideals around which the organization was formed and those goals for which it works? I don't think so.

I didn't know that my slandering their definition invalidated anything. LOL.

I have indeed been the ALBCs biggest critic for many years and will probably continue to do the same. They know. Probably cuss me a bit. Yet, they still call me with chicken questions. Go figure.